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View Poll Results: Bowe vs Lewis
Bowe in 93 55 46.61%
Lewis in 93 46 38.98%
Primes Lewis 59 50.00%
Primes Bowe 17 14.41%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-04-2010, 01:06 PM   #61
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Default Re: Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis in 1993?

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post

There were not only three names at the time. Moorer and Mercer were thought of nearly as highly as Bowe. This was before either of these two became lazy.
Maybe as up and coming prospects they were, but by the time Bowe beat Holyfield, Mercer had been outboxed by an ancient Holmes. On the undercard of Bowe's demolition of Dokes, Mercer lost again, to Jesse Ferguson.
The following year he was lucky to get a draw with Marion Wilson.


Moorer had been knocked down by Big Foot Martin and almost KO'd by Bert Cooper.
Even when Moorer won the championship on a razor close decision over the sick or injured (or HGH-inflicted !) Holyfield, the general feeling was that Bowe was the superior fighter - and many would say best in the world.

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I think you remember the famous Ring Cover "Who's Next?" with them on it. Foreman was becoming a live entity, also. (I'll skip the Alex Garcia hype). In addition, you had a still relevant Tucker, an emerging McCall, Morrison (which should have been an easy payday) and Ruddock. Bowe seemed to avoid all the above, and most importantly did the most embarrassing duck-job in avoiding Lewis. Newman was a world class asshole, that is true, but Bowe followed in line with what, outside of Holy-Tyson, was the biggest fight out there.
Bowe ducked Lewis. We needn't go over that.

But some of the other names are unremarkable and it's a bit unfair and inaccurate to mention them, IMO.
You berate Bowe for fighting Ferguson, Mathis, Gonzalez, Hide etc. ... but Mercer lost to Ferguson, Hide was undefeated and held the WBO title that Morrison had lost in 1 round to Michael Bentt. Hide was actually rated ahead of both.
Mathis and Donald were decent prospects. Gonzalez was a credible opponent at the time. If Bowe had fought Foreman I dont believe he'd be given any credit for that either, in fact he'd be roundly criticized for fighting old George.
Same if he'd faced Mercer in '94 or '95. Same if he'd fought Morrison.

Until he beat Lewis, McCall was rated a mere notch above Seldon. And the only reason Lewis fought him was because Don King and the WBC had put him in the mandatory position. I'm sure Bowe would have fought McCall for the WBC title, but King would never have put McCall in with him.

The only name who might have been avoided was Razor Ruddock, before Bowe won the title. Ruddock was challenging everyone, and was very dangerous. I seem to remember Lewis's camp passed on Ruddock at first time of asking, but agreed later on when it was clear Holyfield was going to choose Bowe as his challenger. Of course, after Lewis destroyed Ruddock, Razor was no longer even a factor.

Even in hindsight I dont think Mercer, Morrison, McCall, or Foreman, or even Moorer, were much better than some of those fighters Bowe chose to fight. And at the time, without the benefit of hindsight, it was often difficult to see how they were better at all.


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Bowe had easy to identify skills, nice, not great, jab, stiff right hand, excellent inside work, good whiskers. He also had porous defense, a propensity to become untracked in fights and lose focus, bad training habits and was a bit soft and fragile over the long run. These are all part of the complete package. As you said- and I agree- regarding overachievers, Bowe achieved exactly what he was capable of, a short title reign filled largely with hand-picked no-hopers. The trilogy with Holyfield is one for the ages, but outside of that there isn't much.
OK, I can agree with all that.
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:07 PM   #62
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Default Re: Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis in 1993?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Lewis early KO, Bowe is the most overrated HW of the last 30 years, has no defense/jab to get out of the way of LEwis's bombs
Are you saying Bowe had no jab ?
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:36 PM   #63
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Default Re: Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis in 1993?

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Maybe as up and coming prospects they were, but by the time Bowe beat Holyfield, Mercer had been outboxed by an ancient Holmes. On the undercard of Bowe's demolition of Dokes, Mercer lost again, to Jesse Ferguson.
The following year he was lucky to get a draw with Marion Wilson.


Moorer had been knocked down by Big Foot Martin and almost KO'd by Bert Cooper.
Even when Moorer won the championship on a razor close decision over the sick or injured (or HGH-inflicted !) Holyfield, the general feeling was that Bowe was the superior fighter - and many would say best in the world.



Bowe ducked Lewis. We needn't go over that.

But some of the other names are unremarkable and it's a bit unfair and inaccurate to mention them, IMO.
You berate Bowe for fighting Ferguson, Mathis, Gonzalez, Hide etc. ... but Mercer lost to Ferguson, Hide was undefeated and held the WBO title that Morrison had lost in 1 round to Michael Bentt. Hide was actually rated ahead of both.
Mathis and Donald were decent prospects. Gonzalez was a credible opponent at the time. If Bowe had fought Foreman I dont believe he'd be given any credit for that either, in fact he'd be roundly criticized for fighting old George.
Same if he'd faced Mercer in '94 or '95. Same if he'd fought Morrison.

Until he beat Lewis, McCall was rated a mere notch above Seldon. And the only reason Lewis fought him was because Don King and the WBC had put him in the mandatory position. I'm sure Bowe would have fought McCall for the WBC title, but King would never have put McCall in with him.

The only name who might have been avoided was Razor Ruddock, before Bowe won the title. Ruddock was challenging everyone, and was very dangerous. I seem to remember Lewis's camp passed on Ruddock at first time of asking, but agreed later on when it was clear Holyfield was going to choose Bowe as his challenger. Of course, after Lewis destroyed Ruddock, Razor was no longer even a factor.

Even in hindsight I dont think Mercer, Morrison, McCall, or Foreman, or even Moorer, were much better than some of those fighters Bowe chose to fight. And at the time, without the benefit of hindsight, it was often difficult to see how they were better at all.




OK, I can agree with all that.
Unless one lived through the times, they wouldnt know the real state of the division. You took the time to lay it all out. Great post.
Mcall, Morrison, Mercer, were all pretty much no hopers at the time.
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Old 08-04-2010, 02:19 PM   #64
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Default Re: Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis in 1993?

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Are you saying Bowe had no jab ?
I think Bowe's jab is a bit overrated. If you watch the first Golota fight, you can see Golota quicker on the jab and getting their first, even though their reach was about the same.
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Old 08-04-2010, 02:29 PM   #65
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Default Re: Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis in 1993?

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
I think Bowe's jab is a bit overrated. If you watch the first Golota fight, you can see Golota quicker on the jab and getting their first, even though their reach was about the same.
The first Golota fight isn't the Bowe we're talking about.

The Jab that he used against Holyfield was great.
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Old 08-04-2010, 02:41 PM   #66
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Default Re: Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis in 1993?

Bowe had an excellent jab. When someone uses the Golota fights as a barometer as to how good Bowe was, they clearly didnt watch him coming up. Regardless of Bowe's age, he was in poor physical condition in the third Holyfield and two Golota fights. The years of going up and down in weight had really diminished his skills, speed and ability to take a punch.

I suggest watching Bowe in some earlier fights. His technique was tighter, he worked his jab more, and didnt loop his righthand. He threw straighter crisper punches.
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:18 PM   #67
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Default Re: Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis in 1993?

Lewis had more focus than bowe. I dont think bowe could exploit lennox's wind problem since he wasnt a 3 minute a rounder himself. technicaly Bowe had more rythem and flow but when he felt threatened lewis had that extra something that would make the diffrence.
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:24 PM   #68
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Default Re: Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis in 1993?

I think you folks are thinking of the Lennox Lewis that Steward coach up. The Lewis of 1993 was not the guy who stood behind his jab and hit you with that hard right. That Lewis didn't come for a while but Bowe on the other hand was a guy equal in size with Lewis, a better chin than Lewis, good power and stamina, adn a better boxer. If you guys think back to when Lewis did win the title he was clearly the biggest guy in the division and he ruled it until two other big guys with decent skill came along. Not once did he have to face someone as big as him or as skilled. IMO Bowe knocks Lewis out because for all the things that Lewis does well he still doesn't have a chin and before Steward taught him how to hide it he was gettin beat by the Oliver McCalls of the world.
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Old 08-04-2010, 03:35 PM   #69
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Default Re: Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis in 1993?

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I think you folks are thinking of the Lennox Lewis that Steward coach up. The Lewis of 1993 was not the guy who stood behind his jab and hit you with that hard right. That Lewis didn't come for a while but Bowe on the other hand was a guy equal in size with Lewis, a better chin than Lewis, good power and stamina, adn a better boxer. If you guys think back to when Lewis did win the title he was clearly the biggest guy in the division and he ruled it until two other big guys with decent skill came along. Not once did he have to face someone as big as him or as skilled. IMO Bowe knocks Lewis out because for all the things that Lewis does well he still doesn't have a chin and before Steward taught him how to hide it he was gettin beat by the Oliver McCalls of the world.
Welcome, we need more people with sense around here.
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:03 PM   #70
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Default Re: Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis in 1993?

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IMO Bowe knocks Lewis out because for all the things that Lewis does well he still doesn't have a chin and before Steward taught him how to hide it he was gettin beat by the Oliver McCalls of the world.
I would have thought this lack of chin myth would have been despelled by now. Surely if Bowe and Lewis were to trade shots I'd pick a focused Lewis to do a Ruddock over Bowe. Bowe was a better inside fighter, but I think Lewis was a better fighter period, and if they were to have fought in '93 I think Lewis would have done what he did against Golota and Ruddock, which would have been to go for broke early and overwhelm him.

If he does that and he lands, he wins, if it's turned into trench warfare than I think Bowe wins. If it becomes a boxing match, I'd again give it to Lewis.

So I think who wins, largely depends on who gets to dictate what type of fight it is and if I had to pick who was most capable of doing that, I'd pick Lewis.
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:34 PM   #71
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Default Re: Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis in 1993?

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I would have thought this lack of chin myth would have been despelled by now. Surely if Bowe and Lewis were to trade shots I'd pick a focused Lewis to do a Ruddock over Bowe. Bowe was a better inside fighter, but I think Lewis was a better fighter period, and if they were to have fought in '93 I think Lewis would have done what he did against Golota and Ruddock, which would have been to go for broke early and overwhelm him.

If he does that and he lands, he wins, if it's turned into trench warfare than I think Bowe wins. If it becomes a boxing match, I'd again give it to Lewis.

So I think who wins, largely depends on who gets to dictate what type of fight it is and if I had to pick who was most capable of doing that, I'd pick Lewis.
You would be completely wrong in 93 though. When did Bowe box guys from the outside? When did Lewis pre Steward fight an outside disciplined boxing match against an offensive fighter? No, the fight would end up at close quarters where Lewis' long off balance sloppy right hand would be ineffective. Were not talking about a back peddaling crab like Ruddock, who held his hands at his waist, or a stationary statue like Bruno, we're talking about Bowe who came forward and worked behind is jab to get close and setup his inside attack. Lewis would have been drowned on the inside and stopped by mid rounds.
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:38 PM   #72
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Default Re: Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis in 1993?

It is worth noting that against bigger fighters like Grant, Ruddock, Golota, and Vitali, Lewis was willing to go for broke early and overwhelm a guy. If Lewis was focused and ready to absorb some bombs in return, he could end up making it an early night against Bow.
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:44 PM   #73
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Default Re: Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis in 1993?

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It is worth noting that against bigger fighters like Grant, Ruddock, Golota, and Vitali, Lewis was willing to go for broke early and overwhelm a guy. If Lewis was focused and ready to absorb some bombs in return, he could end up making it an early night against Bow.
Bowe had never been knocked out, nor was he even in the league mentally of Grant and Golota who basically fell apart before the bell rang. Vitali was not a rough inside fighter either. Lewis would be facing someone who had been well schooled to handle a guy of Lewis unpolished skills at that time. Its conceiveable Bowe could have made it an early night against lewis in 93.
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:55 PM   #74
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Default Re: Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis in 1993?

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Are you saying Bowe had no jab ?
Yep, he may have been able to throw it but Tubbs, Golota, Hide, Holyfield all found it childs play to own him with the jab

Its so laughable people say Bowe was further ahead in his development than Lewis when an ancient Tubbs owned him with the jab
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Old 08-04-2010, 04:56 PM   #75
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Default Re: Riddick Bowe vs Lennox Lewis in 1993?

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Unless one lived through the times, they wouldnt know the real state of the division. You took the time to lay it all out. Great post.
Mcall, Morrison, Mercer, were all pretty much no hopers at the time.
Still better than anyone Bowe faced outside of Holyfield

@ Hide being undefeated - against who exactly
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