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Old 08-03-2010, 11:47 AM   #1
mellamomarcos
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Default Toney by KO R1

Call me crazy, but I have a gut feeling this may happen to Randy come August 28th. It seems that everywhere i look, I hear that Toney is really taking this serious. I really hope so, first i hear he chokes out king mo and now i hear this from his trainers. lets hope this is not some bs scheme...haha maybe it is and we get to see him get choked out by randy!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0Swdk24M88[/ame]
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Toney by KO R1

this fight is going to be interesting
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:14 PM   #3
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Default Re: Toney by KO R1

From his coaches? Well, if they said it, it must be true. I mean, they'd never, ever say anything glowing if it wasn't absolutely 100% true.

Toney has a punchers chance. A good punchers chance, but just that.
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: Toney by KO R1

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Originally Posted by James23 View Post
From his coaches? Well, if they said it, it must be true. I mean, they'd never, ever say anything glowing if it wasn't absolutely 100% true.

Toney has a punchers chance. A good punchers chance, but just that.
he has more than a punchers chance, its not like power is his only advantage, as long as the fight is on the feet toney has the advantage, if its on the ground couture has the advantage.....IMO a punchers chance means a guy is outclassed in every aspect, but toney has a HUGE advantage in the striking department, couture has a HUGE advantage in the grappling department
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:43 PM   #5
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Default Re: Toney by KO R1

Sounds like good news. A competitive fight will be shocking enough to most people, and a Toney win would be a great.
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:56 PM   #6
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he has more than a punchers chance, its not like power is his only advantage, as long as the fight is on the feet toney has the advantage, if its on the ground couture has the advantage.....IMO a punchers chance means a guy is outclassed in every aspect, but toney has a HUGE advantage in the striking department, couture has a HUGE advantage in the grappling department
Toney does not have a "HUGE" advantage in striking. He has a "HUGE" advantage in punching under boxing rules. He has an insurmountable advantage there. But the mechanics of punching change drastically when introducted to other aspects. It's amazing how many times I have to say that and regardless it doesn't sink in. And, good...Toney is good with his hands. Couture is better with his knees, elbows, kicks and shins. He's also vastly superior in the clinch.

So, again, Toney has an advantage in the stand up, but not an overly impressive one. But an advantage nonetheless. Punchers chance.
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Toney by KO R1

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Toney does not have a "HUGE" advantage in striking. He has a "HUGE" advantage in punching under boxing rules. He has an insurmountable advantage there. But the mechanics of punching change drastically when introducted to other aspects. It's amazing how many times I have to say that and regardless it doesn't sink in. And, good...Toney is good with his hands. Couture is better with his knees, elbows, kicks and shins. He's also vastly superior in the clinch.

So, again, Toney has an advantage in the stand up, but not an overly impressive one. But an advantage nonetheless. Punchers chance.
Toney is coming in to this fight knowing the cards are stacked well against him. And I'm sure from reports he's working on EVERYTHING necessary to be compeittive. His HANDS can win it for him if Randy tries to stand with him. The clinch, knees and elbows should be an advantage for Randy but I don't think it will. I think James is gonna be the superior striker on the feet. It's the ground that has me to believe James will end up losing this one....but I wn't be surprised if Randy gest stretched out and James ends up putting out his lights.
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:30 PM   #8
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Toney is coming in to this fight knowing the cards are stacked well against him. And I'm sure from reports he's working on EVERYTHING necessary to be compeittive. His HANDS can win it for him if Randy tries to stand with him. The clinch, knees and elbows should be an advantage for Randy but I don't think it will. I think James is gonna be the superior striker on the feet. It's the ground that has me to believe James will end up losing this one....but I wn't be surprised if Randy gest stretched out and James ends up putting out his lights.
Of course he's working on everything. He has to to be even remotely prepared for the volly of things that he would otherwise be completely unprepared for. But, working on these things for 6 months isn't enough to completely change one's style and to adapt his boxing style with other techniques. It's like saying that the world's fastest skater can play in the NHL if he just plays Hockey for a little bit. It's simply not going to work. Sure, some might be able to do so, but for the overwhelming majority of the time, it's not. They're simply unprepared for the other aspects of competition outside of their expertise.

Of course he'll be the superior striker. But, his advantage will not be overwhelming. Randy will be the more well rounded striker. I'll say it again. Randy Couture will be the more well rounded striker. James Toney will be the better puncher, by far. But that is one aspect of striking and it's the most limited.

And of course he's at a disadvantage on the ground. He's also at a tremendous disadvantage in the clinch. An overwhelming one, at that.

He seems to be doing a good job to make people, who might not know alot about fighting, think he's got a great chance to win. He doesn't. He has a chance, of course, but to say he has even a good chance to win is wishful thinking at best.
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Old 08-03-2010, 05:34 PM   #9
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Of course he's working on everything. He has to to be even remotely prepared for the volly of things that he would otherwise be completely unprepared for. But, working on these things for 6 months isn't enough to completely change one's style and to adapt his boxing style with other techniques. It's like saying that the world's fastest skater can play in the NHL if he just plays Hockey for a little bit. It's simply not going to work. Sure, some might be able to do so, but for the overwhelming majority of the time, it's not. They're simply unprepared for the other aspects of competition outside of their expertise.

Of course he'll be the superior striker. But, his advantage will not be overwhelming. Randy will be the more well rounded striker. I'll say it again. Randy Couture will be the more well rounded striker. James Toney will be the better puncher, by far. But that is one aspect of striking and it's the most limited.

And of course he's at a disadvantage on the ground. He's also at a tremendous disadvantage in the clinch. An overwhelming one, at that.

He seems to be doing a good job to make people, who might not know alot about fighting, think he's got a great chance to win. He doesn't. He has a chance, of course, but to say he has even a good chance to win is wishful thinking at best.
I disagree b/c I think most are discounting James as a FIGHTER. Sure he's a great boxer but James is a fighter with a fighters mentality. When James is focused he's a PROBLEM for anyone including Randy. I'm not saying 6 months is long enough for James to pick everything up but he doesn't need to pick up on all the different styles and techniques to win. It would help but he's got a huge learning curve ahead of him which will be a lifelong ordeal.....as it has been regarding his boxing.

James will be the dominant striker with the hands....and Randy should be the more well rounded striker given this is his element....but James is gonna surprise those who are disregarding this man as a extreme talent as a fighter who if he is taking training seriously he'll be very well prepared for Randy and he has more than just a punchers chance to win.

There are always going to be those who completly disregard the fact James is not jsut one of these regular joes going into MMA from Wrestling or football.....James is a world class athlete and all time great boxer. He's mentally ready and seems to be physically prepared.....He'll be a problem.

So with how sure you are I'm guessing you already have your excuse lined up if James does beat Randy. If it's by KO you'll say he got lucky or Randy fought the wrong fight and if James actually gets a sub....You'll say Randy was shot.

Randy should win and that's what I think will happen but James will earn his respect and do better than most expects.
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:08 PM   #10
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Default Re: Toney by KO R1

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Originally Posted by charlievint View Post
I disagree b/c I think most are discounting James as a FIGHTER. Sure he's a great boxer but James is a fighter with a fighters mentality. When James is focused he's a PROBLEM for anyone including Randy. I'm not saying 6 months is long enough for James to pick everything up but he doesn't need to pick up on all the different styles and techniques to win. It would help but he's got a huge learning curve ahead of him which will be a lifelong ordeal.....as it has been regarding his boxing.

James will be the dominant striker with the hands....and Randy should be the more well rounded striker given this is his element....but James is gonna surprise those who are disregarding this man as a extreme talent as a fighter who if he is taking training seriously he'll be very well prepared for Randy and he has more than just a punchers chance to win.

There are always going to be those who completly disregard the fact James is not jsut one of these regular joes going into MMA from Wrestling or football.....James is a world class athlete and all time great boxer. He's mentally ready and seems to be physically prepared.....He'll be a problem.

So with how sure you are I'm guessing you already have your excuse lined up if James does beat Randy. If it's by KO you'll say he got lucky or Randy fought the wrong fight and if James actually gets a sub....You'll say Randy was shot.

Randy should win and that's what I think will happen but James will earn his respect and do better than most expects.
I would strongly appreciate you not making my opinions for me.

"...with how sure (I am)" is entirely dependant on the totality of the situation, and it is an exceptionally reasonable position to take given the circumstances. And if James beats Randy I'd say it's because James beat Randy. He has that punchers chance. It's an unlikely event but certainly not impossible. What excuse could be made, realistically?

So, now that I've got that nonsense out of the way, I'd appreciate it even more if you don't ever, ever try and speak for me again or make assumptions about what I think.
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:19 PM   #11
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I would strongly appreciate you not making my opinions for me.

"...with how sure (I am)" is entirely dependant on the totality of the situation, and it is an exceptionally reasonable position to take given the circumstances. And if James beats Randy I'd say it's because James beat Randy. He has that punchers chance. It's an unlikely event but certainly not impossible. What excuse could be made, realistically?

So, now that I've got that nonsense out of the way, I'd appreciate it even more if you don't ever, ever try and speak for me again or make assumptions about what I think.
My bad....Didn't mean to form "your opinion" for you and definitly didn't want it to affect you this severely.....Really....I apologize bro. i just find it funny that folks only want to give James a "punchers chance" in this. That's just crazy to me if you truly understand what James Toney is.....Sure his background is boxing....at its highest levels but ultimately James is a fighter who I"m sure has a lot to learn....but just have the mentaility James has and the foundation he brings with him means he's picking shit up quickly and he's understanding it. He may not be as sharp or technical but instincually James is razor sharp. That will translate well in the octagon.
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:30 PM   #12
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Default Re: Toney by KO R1

James Toney is certainly capable of KOing Randy Couture in round one - but I don't think it's very probable. Couture will avoid the exchanges by covering up and feint his way into a clinch. From there it's only a matter of time until he takes Toney down and ground and pounds Toney until he slips in a choke. I don't think Toney will tap out so I expect that we'll see Toney get put to sleep in the center of the octagon.

If Toney does manage to catch COuture - he will most likely follow up and knock him spark out. It wouldn't shock me and I say it could only be good for the sport. Toney is a multiple time world champion in many divisions and to see him win could be a great moment for the sport.
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Toney by KO R1

I'm not as excited as I was about this, since Ticketmaster screwed me out of being able to see it cageside - but if Toney does knock Randy out (even though I like Randy) it will be the biggest moment of the year for me in terms of sports adrenaline highs - and the Celtics made the finals!
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Old 08-04-2010, 08:56 AM   #14
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Default Re: Toney by KO R1

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Originally Posted by James23 View Post
Toney does not have a "HUGE" advantage in striking. He has a "HUGE" advantage in punching under boxing rules. He has an insurmountable advantage there. But the mechanics of punching change drastically when introducted to other aspects. It's amazing how many times I have to say that and regardless it doesn't sink in. And, good...Toney is good with his hands. Couture is better with his knees, elbows, kicks and shins. He's also vastly superior in the clinch.

So, again, Toney has an advantage in the stand up, but not an overly impressive one. But an advantage nonetheless. Punchers chance.

The mechanics of an MMA fighter striking does change compared to boxing, because of the MMA fighters other abilities, but the way a MMA fighter has to strike leaves them very vulnerable and JT will easily take advantage of the bad technique and bad defense of an MMA fighter's striking ability. All MMA fighters square up when striking, and Toney will easily take advantage of it. They leave their hands down, again Toney will take advantage. MMA strikers and virtually all MMA fighters who stand up and strike are easily predictable. Jab, Jab, followed by a right hand. The easiest and predictable punches are the jab followed by a right hand that is what all MMA fighter throw and whats crazy is it works in UFC, most of the Ko's are from that combination. One that shows a total lack of defense by the opponent and it shows how easy it will be for a boxer like Toney to predict it and counter it. For example, look at another so-called legend, Chuck Lidell. He loads up follows people around with both hands out by his waist, his right hand is ****ed and ready to throw. Its so obvious, he throws a jab from his waist a fires a right hand. As amazingly as it sounds he usually always landed it. Toney would not fall for that and if Randy throws out a lazy jab and right hand that follows he will miss and zToney will counter and ko Randy. Carwin uses the same combo jab, right hand.
The idea of a good defense does not change. One thing about MMA fighters who are strikers or part of their repertoire is striking, none of them have a defense against good strikers. Most MM fighters who stand and fight are terrible at defense. This is where JT has a edge on them. He knows how to take a punch, he knows how to roll with a punch, and he especially knows how to read what a fighter is going to throw and anticipate what the opponent will do. So he has the advantage with very quick counters. Yeah Randy will kick or throw an elbow, but Toney;'s training and defense will kick in and just as if it were a punch coming Toney will be able to defend against it.

Regarding MMA fighters defense, this is why you see so many so called spectacular ko's in MMA. Because the fighters do not have any defense. They go in with their hands down, and their heads forward. They throw punches wit their head strait up, and they get square when they punch which leaves a lot of room for a counter punch. Let me give an example. Silva vs Griffen. Here is a fighter who went forward straight in with his body squared up, throwing a straight left and right. Absolutely an amateurish thing to do. All Silva had to do was step back and throw a lazy jab. Results are an embarrasing, but crowd pleasing ko.

Last edited by josjbp23; 08-04-2010 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:17 AM   #15
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Call me crazy, but I have a gut feeling this may happen to Randy come August 28th. It seems that everywhere i look, I hear that Toney is really taking this serious. I really hope so, first i hear he chokes out king mo and now i hear this from his trainers. lets hope this is not some bs scheme...haha maybe it is and we get to see him get choked out by randy!

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lol there's nothing crazy with the idea of james toney KO'ing randy esp. on the first round. the guy is still a great boxer even at that age.

... toney winning through submission against randy will surprise the hell out of me though.
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