Ray Mercer Versus Rocky Marciano

[Hydraulix]

Who takes this one?

[Boxed Ears]

Ignoring the thread, I'll move on to pointing out the major avatar and signature win that you have combined.

[Boxed Ears]

Originally Posted by billybaxter

is this a joke? dont get me wrong mercer is(was) a tough nut to crack and a great gatekeeper for the HW division back in the 90's...but theres no way in hell he beats marciano.

If the fight was now though, I believe Ray would win. If sanctioned or not.

[PetethePrince]

Originally Posted by Boxed Ears

If the fight was now though, I believe Ray would win. If sanctioned or not.

If Valuev is there, the mere site of the GOAT inspires Rocky to decision Mercer. Immediately after, he mysteriously drops like a sack of potato.

[Boxed Ears]

Originally Posted by PetethePrince

If Valuev is there, the mere site of the GOAT inspires Rocky to decision Mercer. Immediately after, he mysteriously drops like a sack of potato.

I hadn't thought of that but I see your point.

[Caelum]

Actually, this is a great question. How would have Mercer done had he been in other eras, like Marciano's?

Walcott during his day was actually regarded as a "journeyman" most of his career. And remember, he gave Marciano a very tough fight and was winning up until that final punch. Walcott, because of his age, and wear and tear, was wearing down which was going to be normal for his age and going up against a younger foe and tough fighter like Marciano. And even Charles, a LH, gave Rocky the toughest fight of his career by his own admission, in that first fight. Say what you want about Charles as an ATG which is true, but he is an ATG at LH. I don't consider him on par with other ATG that are 200+



People just automatically assume that a person listed as an "ATG" would absolutely beat someone that is not when I think this is not true.

I'm not saying Mercer would win but I do think it is a legit question. Same with wondering how Marciano would do with a legit 200+ pound prime HW.

Funny thing is, I was thinking this a few days back. This exact match-up. Weird.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Hydraulix

Who takes this one?

Nice to see you on here again Hydraulix. Marciano would pound out a clear points victory. Yes,I can actually see it going the distance,as Mercer was pretty tough,if limited.

[DonBoxer]

I think if you put Mercer in the 50s he is a definate hall of famer who can be argued as an ATG.

[he grant]

Mercer was much stronger , just as fast and had the chin to take Marciano's shots ... he could unload big shots as well ... the unmotivated Mercer would be outworked to a decision loss .. a highly motivated Mercer could definitely take a big decision ...

[The Mongoose]

Originally Posted by Caelum

Actually, this is a great question. How would have Mercer done had he been in other eras, like Marciano's?

Walcott during his day was actually regarded as a "journeyman" most of his career. And remember, he gave Marciano a very tough fight and was winning up until that final punch.

Walcott was a journey man when he was starving, boxing part time, and training himself. But than he got a real trainer, dedicated himself to boxing full time, and cleaned out a stacked top 10 of avoided post-WW II fighters, establishing himself as an elite heavyweight. He didn't magically go from journeyman to Champion.

Mercer never beat a top 10 fighter save the overhyped Morrison, he tried to bribe his way into title shots because he couldn't get past the likes of old man Holmes and Ferguson and earn one himself. Spent the "prime" of his career as an inactive trial horse for a retired Holyfield and jittery comeback trial Lewis. In the 50s, maybe if Maricano needed a comeback opponent he could beat on, he'd give Mercer a call. Mercer might still have to beat a Mathews to get ranked though....and he would probably choke and drop a decision after Mathews refused to take a dive.

[The Mongoose]

Originally Posted by DonBoxer

I think if you put Mercer in the 50s he is a definate hall of famer who can be argued as an ATG.

He would be a Ceaser Brion type. Old Joe Louis and Ezzard Charles would beat on him in tune up fights once a year.

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by The Mongoose

Walcott was a journey man when he was starving, boxing part time, and training himself. But than he got a real trainer, dedicated himself to boxing full time, and cleaned out a stacked top 10 of avoided post-WW II fighters, establishing himself as an elite heavyweight. He didn't magically go from journeyman to Champion.

Mercer never beat a top 10 fighter save the overhyped Morrison, he tried to bribe his way into title shots because he couldn't get past the likes of old man Holmes and Ferguson and earn one himself. Spent the "prime" of his career as an inactive trial horse for a retired Holyfield and jittery comeback trial Lewis. In the 50s, maybe if Maricano needed a comeback opponent he could beat on, he'd give Mercer a call. Mercer might still have to beat a Mathews to get ranked though....and he would probably choke and drop a decision after Mathews refused to take a dive.

[Bummy Davis]

Never really though much of Mercer other than a durable guy, he would lose to Archie, Ezzard and JJW and possibly a few others from that era

[Caelum]

Originally Posted by The Mongoose

Walcott was a journey man when he was starving, boxing part time, and training himself. But than he got a real trainer, dedicated himself to boxing full time, and cleaned out a stacked top 10 of avoided post-WW II fighters, establishing himself as an elite heavyweight. He didn't magically go from journeyman to Champion.

Mercer never beat a top 10 fighter save the overhyped Morrison, he tried to bribe his way into title shots because he couldn't get past the likes of old man Holmes and Ferguson and earn one himself. Spent the "prime" of his career as an inactive trial horse for a retired Holyfield and jittery comeback trial Lewis. In the 50s, maybe if Maricano needed a comeback opponent he could beat on, he'd give Mercer a call. Mercer might still have to beat a Mathews to get ranked though....and he would probably choke and drop a decision after Mathews refused to take a dive.

He still lost to a past prime Joe Louis by KO so let's not go to far with this.

And "boxing part-time": By today's standards, he was quite active.

Holyfield had some trouble with old Man Holmes. Walcott was Old by the way when Marciano faced him and Walcott was out-boxing him for most of that fight. He was lucky to get those extra rounds back in the day since Old people tire as the fight goes on. Patterson's trainer mentioned that about those fighters back then that were up in age; they worn down.

90's HWs was a solid era. Super-Heavyweights as well.

[The Mongoose]

Originally Posted by Caelum

He still lost to a past prime Joe Louis by KO so let's not go to far with this.

And "boxing part-time": By today's standards, he was quite active.

90's HWs was a solid era. Super-Heavyweights as well.

-Joe Lous still KOed the Ring's top contender in one round before facing Walcott. He was still the reinging undisputed Champion. Adding "past prime" to his name doesn't make him any less dominating or formidable.

-Jersey Joe was a dock worker who boxed on the side. He fought frequently but was not properly trained or conditioned like a full time athlete could afford to be until very late in his career.

-Walcott didn't lose to Maricano because of his stamina. He lost because he got knocked out cold by a perfectly set up right hand he didn't see coming.

-So? Is this an excuse for Mercer's poor training habits, glaring limitations, and inconsistenties in the ring. An Olympic prospect, Mercer was fairly protected on his way to the top. Morrison was his first real test and vise versa. Old Holmes and Ferguson were suppose to be easy set ups to get him into the title scene...hell, the latter was literally offered extra cash to fall down early. Didn't work out that way.

There's a reason Mercer became an ideal confidence builder for better fighters. Unless your Tommy the Glass Morrison, he was ultimately a non-threat that could hang with you and take a beating. Thus the legacy of Mercer. A failed contender turned trialhorse to the stars. No matter what era you placed him in, his lack of ability and drive would catch up with him.