What If: JACK DEMPSEY vs. JOE LOUIS

[Bonecrusher]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

I think the only thing that's funny is your extreme overpraise of Dempsey, and very questionable high ranking of him. If we were talking purely accomplishments, Louis would blow dempsey so far out of the water it isn't even worth discussing. It's crazy how many people give Dempsey a free pass for not fighting the far and away # 1 and # 2 best contenders of his era.

I stand by my statement Dempsey is made for Louis. Anyone who comes into Joe Louis, into his target range...their chances go down dramatically. The way to beat Louis is to stick and move...box on the outside, in and out with tricky footwork(Ali). You cannot beat Joe Louis at his own game. Louis was the king of all punchers. His two fisted power, combination punching, handspeed, accuracy, late power all rate at the very top.

Say goodnight Jack

I'm with you!!

[Caelum]

Originally Posted by itrymariti

Louis is just another class of fighter IMO. Dempsey reminds me of the guy in the gym who's always smashing the bag around all over the place, but in reality all he can do is wade precitably into range and start winging bombs, and when it comes to getting something off against a quality opponent he doesn't have the legs for it. He may have been awkward but Dempsey wouldn't look dissmilar against an opponent with Louis' timing and eye for distance.

Also, the "Louis didn't like swarmers" thing gets blown out of proportion. Everybody with a remotely aggressive style seems to be getting credit for having a huge stylistic advantage over him these days, to the point where "it could go either way" seems to be the mantra of the day despite Louis being at or near the top of the list compared to Dempsey - that's a good 50 odd places on an ATG list at least, if you think Dempsey merits inclusion on one of those things (I don't). (And yet again we seem to be basing all of this on an off-hand comment made by a fighter which may or may not mean all that much - Ali said he didn't like facing punchers, but he took on that style arguably better than any other.) Louis handled Godoy effortlessly in the rematch, almost like a Holyfield/Tyson I-esque showing but with heavier digs. I'd expect a fight with Dempsey to go the same way. Like SuzieQ says, you don't succeed against Louis by walking into the most skilled puncher and mid-range ring general in HW history, unless perhaps you're Tyson (and I doubt even that one).

And if Louis/Galento is worthy of a mention here then so is Dempsey/Firpo.

People always bring up the Godoy fight specifically. However, they forget Louis won that first fight. And, adapted and destroyed Godoy in the rematch. Why do people overlook the rematch?
Because it doesn't serve their purpose.

And even if he didn't like swarmers, well, who really does?
Fighters don't tend to like any opponent that will give them a little more difficulty but that doesn't mean they can't handle it. Louis proved he could handle it.

[burt bienstock]

Originally Posted by Caelum

People always bring up the Godoy fight specifically. However, they forget Louis won that first fight. And, adapted and destroyed Godoy in the rematch. Why do people overlook the rematch?
Because it doesn't serve their purpose.

And even if he didn't like swarmers, well, who really does?
Fighters don't tend to like any opponent that will give them a little more difficulty but that doesn't mean they can't handle it. Louis proved he could handle it.

Caelum, I posted that Godoy lasted with joe Louis 15 rds Feb 9,1940, and 8 rds June 20,1940, before Louis stopped him..Where was I wrong ?
I guarantee that tough as Aruro Godoy was [I saw him later on in Stillmans Gym], he would have NEVER survived 23 rounds with the
prime Jack Dempsey..Never....
Caelum, I have no purpose to serve, only what I fervently believe...
Dempsey would have eaten up Arturo Godoy and spit him out much
quicker than the more methodical, but equally great Joe Louis...It is
style that makes fights, and in the trenches prime Dempsey was a KILLER.

[SuzieQ49]

Forget Godoy...Who did Jack Dempsey ever beat that even remotely compares to Joe Louis in Jab, Fundamentals, and Punching abilities?

If Louis had fought during Dempsey's time, Jack would not even have fought him. He would have ducked him for 7 years and fought softies instead.


Amazing how people are trying to cherrypick Louis' "struggles" in his far superior opposition as evidence Dempsey would beat him, when dempsey himself never beat anyone even close to Joe Louis as a fighter or puncher. Dempsey is extremely unproven because of his limited opposition and refusal to fight top fighters.

[gentleman jim]

Between rounds 1&3 Dempsey is favored. After that it's all Louis. Jack's best chance is an early KO which is a definite possibility but the longer the fight goes on Louis' chances increase dramatically. This war does not go the distance by the way. 5 or 6 rounds and that's about it. Once Joe begins to time Jack's advances his pinpoint accuracy and power win the day...If he makes out of the first few rounds.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Bokaj

"Former Jack Dempsey trainer Teddy Hayes describes how a Dempsey-Louis encounter would develop. Hayes was the trainer of Dempsey for eight years during the period when the Manassa Mauler pounded Fulton, Willard, Brennan, Carpentier, and Firpo.
Hayes declared, Jan 18, 1936 New York Amsterdam News, "Why Kearns and I would never have thought of matching Dempsey with a boxer. We kept putting him in there with those big, slow bums and Dempsey made us all look good. We didn't want any part of that Tommy Gibbons fight, but gave Jack his way. And what happened? The first time Dempsey met a good boxer he was shown up. You know how Gibbons cuffed him around at Shelby: That was the tip-off on Dempsey." "Dempsey at his best wouldn't last four rounds with Joe Louis", insisted Hayes, "He'd let Dempsey force all the fighting and cut him to ribbons. He'd be stalking Dempsey from the opening bell, backing away, catching Dempsey's shots on his arms and elbows and waiting for the opening to put across that sleep producer."


This was very interesting. Even though I think he has a point, it's a pretty surprising statement from someone you'd think have his loyalaties to Dempsey. Did they have a fallling out or something?

Yes they fell out big time and that should be taken into account when evaluating Haye's opinion,imo.

[Boilermaker]

Originally Posted by mcvey

Yes they fell out big time and that should be taken into account when evaluating Haye's opinion,imo.

But he sort of has a point, doesnt he? I sway so massively on Dempsey. At first i never rated him that highly, then i rated him very highly, always back and forth. Some on here will crucify my, but at the present time, if i did a list, i think he might be much closer to no 20 than to no 1.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

The term " Hype " came from Igoe. Don't take what he wrote too seriously.

I think Dempsey vs. Louis could go either way. I like Dempsey early, and Louis late. Though I do think Dempsey superior agility, and fast straiting ways would eventually spell doom for Louis, who was slower, not always a fast starter, and was there to be hit.

After getting off the canvas,himself Louis would stop Dempsey by the time five rounds were up.

[bman100]

This would be the greatest HW bout ever, i think Joe wins but i wiuldnt be surprised if Jack KO'd him.

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

The term " Hype " came from Igoe. Don't take what he wrote too seriously.

I thought "hype" was an abbreviation of hyperbole.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

I thought "hype" was an abbreviation of hyperbole.

There is absolutely no evidence to support the assertion that the word originated with Igoe ,it is beleived to be an abbreviation of hyperbole ,and ,also possibly slang for hypodermic.

Just to clarify.

Igoe was nicknamed Hype because he was so thin he resembled a hypodermic syringe. Hype itself comes from hyperbole.

[Boilermaker]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

Forget Godoy...Who did Jack Dempsey ever beat that even remotely compares to Joe Louis in Jab, Fundamentals, and Punching abilities?

If Louis had fought during Dempsey's time, Jack would not even have fought him. He would have ducked him for 7 years and fought softies instead.


Amazing how people are trying to cherrypick Louis' "struggles" in his far superior opposition as evidence Dempsey would beat him, when dempsey himself never beat anyone even close to Joe Louis as a fighter or puncher. Dempsey is extremely unproven because of his limited opposition and refusal to fight top fighters.

I came across some Schmelling articles from his younger days and found it very, very interesting that Max Schmelling was considered a Dempsey clone (not as good). Is it therefore pretty much accepted the young and overconfident louis who liked to skip training a bit?

[turpinr]

louis by ko over one of boxings most over rated fighters.not even close !!

[janitor]

If this fight was going up on pay per view tonight, I would want my money on Louis, but I would not go into the fight with any sense that my money was safe.