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Old 08-19-2010, 08:54 PM   #1
Bummy Davis
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Default First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

Funny but looking back I remember him on a Mike Quarry undercard at MSG He was the opponent for Randy Neumann (the Ref) who was 18-1 Young was 7-2 and Randy beat him. I remember thinking Neuman is going no-where and Young was worse than him, neither man could bust open a grape. I hated myself for going to see Nuemann again after watching him and pillow-fisted Chuck Wepner in a horible fight.

I loved Boxing but this fight put me to sleep. Young was Ko'd by Shavers in his next fight in 3 bringing his record to 7-4 but wins over Obie English, Richard Dunn KO8, and Jose Louis Garcia gave the 13-4-1 Young a rematch with Shavers that was a draw that most felt Young clearly won. He went on to beat Ron Lyle and lose a decision to Ali many felt he won, he also beat and dropped George Foreman and lost a controvercial dec to Ken Norton

Point is the school of hard knocks sometimes brings out the best in a fighter. I saw Mike Weaver a 18-9 trail horse get convidence and rejuvination after a gallent effort vs Holmes and remember guys like Freddie Pembleton and Art"the dart"Kettels and Maurice Harris comeback after a confidence builder

Any other fighters you can think of that had a rough start but came back strong
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Old 08-19-2010, 09:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

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Originally Posted by Bummy Davis View Post
Funny but looking back I remember him on a Mike Quarry undercard at MSG He was the opponent for Randy Neumann (the Ref) who was 18-1 Young was 7-2 and Randy beat him. I remember thinking Neuman is going no-where and Young was worse than him, neither man could bust open a grape. I hated myself for going to see Nuemann again after watching him and pillow-fisted Chuck Wepner in a horible fight.

I loved Boxing but this fight put me to sleep. Young was Ko'd by Shavers in his next fight in 3 bringing his record to 7-4 but wins over Obie English, Richard Dunn KO8, and Jose Louis Garcia gave the 13-4-1 Young a rematch with Shavers that was a draw that most felt Young clearly won. He went on to beat Ron Lyle and lose a decision to Ali many felt he won, he also beat and dropped George Foreman and lost a controvercial dec to Ken Norton

Point is the school of hard knocks sometimes brings out the best in a fighter. I saw Mike Weaver a 18-9 trail horse get convidence and rejuvination after a gallent effort vs Holmes and remember guys like Freddie Pembleton and Art"the dart"Kettels and Maurice Harris comeback after a confidence builder

Any other fighters you can think of that had a rough start but came back strong
Alan Minter springs to mind...he had a few bad losses before he hit a purple patch and won the 160lb titles.
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:31 PM   #3
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Default Re: First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

Prince Charles Williams and Johnny Nelson are great examples of this.
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

The thing with Young was he was at that Frazier gym back then. And the Frazier camp was not known as a softie type camp by any means. Anyone lasting during that timeframe had to have some skills just to survive.

The bout that put Jimmy on the map was the first Lyle bout, which I've yet to see. Heard about it & it was a big big upset at the time. their seconds bout really did show
those Young reflexes and man, that guy was hard to hit clean. In recent boxing times, the Lyle camp would've never accepted those matches and fought a ponderous face first guy instead. And lottery ticket odds chances of a rematch.

Speaking of Weaver--did you ever see his Oliver Phillips bout he had just prior to that Holmes fight? I thought the guy was about a 50-1 shot and actually you could not place a bet on the Holmes-Weaver fight. It was expected to be a rematch and Oliver did better in the early rounds than Holmes did, which was surprising.

Mike Weaver rising to the top elite was pretty much on par with what Young did and really came out of nowhere. It shows that some guys do elevate their game when they do finally get an opportunity and from time to time guys raise their game and stay there and you just don't see it coming. Especially guys like Weaver and Young that were not house fighters or had any big promotions or money behind them.

It's a good thing Mike didn't fight Young in that 78 timeframe because he would've been countered to death and would not land his slow punches against that guy.
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Old 08-20-2010, 07:29 AM   #5
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Default Re: First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

Up until 1975,Young seemed very ordinary. After he beat Lyle though,he really came into his own. I've often said that if he'd had a third fight with Earnie Shavers,he'd probably have scored a shutout decision.
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:24 AM   #6
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Default Re: First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

Good thread but it's a matter of consistent training, financial backing and stylistic match ups ... Young was made to defeat a slower guy like Lyle but he was never beating a fast, volume puncher ... he couldn't even handle Ozzie ...Weaver could give many guys hell but against big punchers like a Foreman or a Bonecrusher he was going to get iced early ...
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:45 AM   #7
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Default Re: First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

Kind of amazing...and unique how Young started out so unspectaular and ordinary and then developed into what he became...and then lost it all again after the disappointment vs Norton..
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:46 AM   #8
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Default Re: First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

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Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
Up until 1975,Young seemed very ordinary. After he beat Lyle though,he really came into his own. I've often said that if he'd had a third fight with Earnie Shavers,he'd probably have scored a shutout decision.
True...he would have just outclassed Earnie.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:32 PM   #9
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Default Re: First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

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Up until 1975,Young seemed very ordinary. After he beat Lyle though,he really came into his own.
Who did he go on to beat though ? It's only Lyle and Foreman really.

The losses to Ali and Norton were controversial, but that's probably the worse version of Ali ever up to the Holmes fight and Young's performance was hardly spectacular. Young-Norton was close, certainly no robbery.
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Old 08-21-2010, 09:13 AM   #10
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Default Re: First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

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Good thread but it's a matter of consistent training, financial backing and stylistic match ups ... Young was made to defeat a slower guy like Lyle but he was never beating a fast, volume puncher ... he couldn't even handle Ozzie ...Weaver could give many guys hell but against big punchers like a Foreman or a Bonecrusher he was going to get iced early ...
after the Norton fight Jimmy did not even enter the gym for Ossie who he would have beaten with one hand. Jimmy came in the ring with the biggest pair of tits I have seen on a heavyweight, yes bigger than Tony Tubbs, Tim Witherspoon. Jimmy did give a fast heavyweight a challenge. I felt he should have gotten the nod vs Ali...anyway in the rematch vs Ocasio Jimmy's tits were even bigger...the man did not train at all, an in shape Young beats Ocasio in a shut-out
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Old 08-21-2010, 09:21 AM   #11
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Default Re: First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

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Who did he go on to beat though ? It's only Lyle and Foreman really.

The losses to Ali and Norton were controversial, but that's probably the worse version of Ali ever up to the Holmes fight and Young's performance was hardly spectacular. Young-Norton was close, certainly no robbery.
A lot in what you say. Prior to the Holmes fight though,I think Muhammad's performances against Evangelista and Spinks 1,were as bad as the Young one. I agree that the Young - Norton fight was close,but Jimmy was probably the sixth best heavyweight in that golden decade of the seventies,imo.
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

In early 1969, while still an amateur, Jimmy sparred with Leotis Martin.
A couple of months later, Martin KO'd Sonny Liston in Las Vegas.
At that time, Jimmy was only 21 years old, and 190 lbs. (soaking wet).
During the several sparring sessions in Philly, Jimmy gave Leotis fits.
Jimmy would never open up offensively, and then would counter-punch Leotis silly.

Considered a 'stylist', more than a boxer. No one thought much of him,
when entering the 'Pro Ranks'.
One of his earliest 'important' wins. A 1973 decision win over a 'pretty good at the time' Obie English, who was
8-1-0. In a battle of young Philadelphia Heavyweights, Jimmy overcame a slow first half of the fight, to counter-punch Obie in Rounds 4-5-6, before opening up offensively in Rounds 7 and 8, to upset the 'favored' English.
The reason that fight was so important. 2 months earlier Jimmy was crushed (KO'd) by Earnie Shavers, dropping
his record to 7-4-0 (2 KO's). He needed a victory over a decent opponenet, to prevent from falling into
Boxing Oblivion. A loss to English, may have sealed his fate.

I still believe he won the title fight over Ali. I have played that fight over and over, and still have Jimmy winning the fight in rounds (6 to 5 with 4 even)
Up to that point, 'no one' had ever made Ali look like an 'ass' in the ring.
Jimmy did, even laughing at Ali's pathetic dancing in Round 11.
Check out Rounds 8 thru 12, and it is difficult to see Ali control anyone of them.
If anyone ever deserved a re-match, it was Jimmy Young.
pc

Last edited by Il Duce; 11-18-2010 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:48 PM   #13
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Default Re: First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

Another guy I who I remember looked terrible early on was Buster Douglas. I saw him on a cable fight - not sure who he fought - and he just looked awful to me. The only reason I remembered watching him was because he was Billy Douglas' son. I was blown away a couple years later by the improvement he showed vs. Tony Tucker.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:04 PM   #14
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Default Re: First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

Yet another example: Steve Robinson. He was a total journeyman for his first 20 fights or so, then became a substitute title challenger... And then his career just kicked off. He kept on winning and winning, even as he faced boxers who he was supposed to lose against. Eventually, he faced a bridge too far in the form of Naseem Hamed, but for a few years he managed to prove the pundits wrong time after time.

Like Young, he had a good defence and could counter-punch well. Also, like Young, he didn't have much power (and for his weight, Robinson wasn't that fast) but at his peak he always found ways to win, except when facing someone who had every edge like Hamed.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:32 PM   #15
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Default Re: First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

Jimmy Young's first loss was to Clay Hodges in San Diego, California.
In April 1970.
After 2 quick wins, to start his career, his manager foolishly took a fight
with Hodges, on his home turf in San Diego.
Just who was Clay Hodges, a 1-0 fighter, but he was a Top ranking amateur in 1969,
who beat George Foreman not once, but twice in 1968.
Clay a tall and gangling 6' 3" 199 lb fighter, won 5 of the 6 rounds.
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