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View Poll Results: Mayweather vs. Pacquiao is now meaningless?
Agree 360 47.94%
Disagree 391 52.06%
Voters: 751. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-21-2011, 01:30 PM   #1696
sunnn
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Default Re: We all know why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers!

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Originally Posted by sdsfinest22 View Post
Willaims-No-never in position to fight Floyd-Was either fighting Margarito, or getting ready to get beat by Carlos Quintana in the first fight
HE THEN MOVED UP IN WEIGHT TO 154-160

Tony was and is garbage-Floyd advised him to keep winning and they'd meet-HE LOST HIS NEXT FIGHT TO WILLIAMS-HE DID NOT "KEEP WINNING"

TSZYU-WOW-U MUST BE NEW TO THE SPORT-FLOYD WAS CALLIN OUT KOSTYA AS A LW AND JWW-TSZYU WANTED 0 PARTS AND BY THE TIME FLOYD GOT TO 140 IN 2004, TSZYU WAS ALL BUT DONE

Mosley-Never avoided him-Floyd was on ESPN in August 2006, sayin "first I'll beat Mosley then I'll beat his boss"-This was before Shane went on vacation and got his tooth fixed-Floyd was callin em out at 130 when shane was at 135 too

Pacquiao-LMFAO-PAC HAS BEEN USING A "DRUG TEST" AS AN "EXCUSE" NTO TO FIGHT FLOYD-Pac agrees to the test and PAC FINDS THE NEXT EXCUSE IN "JMM 4"

SERGIO-Not ducking nobody-This fight may materialize To say he is "ducking" shows your bias-FLOYD WANTS TO FIGHT MANNY AND CLEARLY, IS GIVING MANNY A QUICK MINUTE TO DECIDE-SERGIO-FLOYD WILL HAPPEN WHEN FLOYD READY TO JUMP TO 60 FOR THAT 6TH WEIGHT CLASS (LEGIT TOO-NOT 145 OR 150 IN 147 OR 154 LB DIVISIONS)

COTTO-I HAVE 0 ARGUMENT HERE-I TRULY BELIEVE FLOYD AVOIDED COTTO IN THE PRO RANKS-styles make fights...don't think Cotto could do it today BUT I DO GIVE CREDIT WHERE ITS DUE AND 2007 IS A DIFFERENT STORY ALL TOGETHER.

Please get it right
if no pac fight, is floyd gonna fight martinez or not?
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:02 PM   #1697
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Default Re: We all know why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers!

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Originally Posted by sunnn View Post
its the law of big numbers. 1m+ ppv is difficult to sustain. you have to find the right people that matches up well with pac, people that would produce fireworks in the ring against pac. feeding pac with boxers, who can make him look ordinary (though he can still beat them), would sour the audience. thats just the way it is.

floyd will curse his own father on national tv just to sustain his numbers. pac's team will do things to get their numbers too, matching pac with the right people is one of them.
This. I'd venture to say that the majority of Pac fans are fans because of his all-action style. Dude's a fighter, his greatness revolves around outfighting and outmacho-ing a guy in the ring. Put him up against those who fight negative who wants to "tactically" win a fight and your denying most fans of what they wanna see when they go watch Pac fight, ie...a firefight, fireworkks. The problem nowadays is, Pac simply outguns anyone right now who dares challenge him toe-to-toe...and he will actually get criticized if he were matched up with someone like that despite fighting with a size handicap in almost every fight. Imagine Pac fight Brandon Rios right now...that would be an exciting fan-friendly one-sided beatdown but obviously Pac would get no credit.

In short, the only somehwat competitive fight for Pac is aginst those who fight with the stick-and-move blueprint (actually its more like move and stick when its safe blueprint). Pac has proven he can beat backpedallers and boxers...but it has also proven that its not the exciting kind of Pac fight weve grown accustomed to. Itsa catch-22. Pac's held to a different standard then say Floyd....Floyd gets a pass for getting 12 round "boxing" decisions...thats what expected of him. With Pac, we expect to see back and forth action, give and take...wars of attrition. Thats the problem and where Pac gets alot of unwarranted heat....its a conflict of expectations vs reality. We want to see competitive fights but we also expect to see exciting fights with the Pacman. But the reality is for elite "boxers", theyre never gonna give that knd of fight. The blueprint is out, and its simple really---the best way to be competitive against Pac or to at least make him look pedestrian is to stay away long enough to counter him when he gets impatient or reckless. However, this doesnt guarantee a win but it does guarantee a letdown of expectations. So essentially u will have pac chasing and outworking a guy for 12 'tactical' rounds where there'll be alotta feints alotta lunges alotta defense...but not actually alotta fighting. .
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:11 PM   #1698
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Default Re: We all know why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers!

clean effective punch 1
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clean effective punch 2
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clean effective punch 4
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clean effective punch 8
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pac landed more clean effective punches

marquez got "outbox" thats why his face was a mess at the end of the fight

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Pac wins

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Old 11-21-2011, 02:17 PM   #1699
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Default Re: We all know why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers!

he just fought a boxer.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:26 PM   #1700
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Default Re: We all know why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers!

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Originally Posted by PaoloMirani View Post
This. I'd venture to say that the majority of Pac fans are fans because of his all-action style. Dude's a fighter, his greatness revolves around outfighting and outmacho-ing a guy in the ring. Put him up against those who fight negative who wants to "tactically" win a fight and your denying most fans of what they wanna see when they go watch Pac fight, ie...a firefight, fireworkks. The problem nowadays is, Pac simply outguns anyone right now who dares challenge him toe-to-toe...and he will actually get criticized if he were matched up with someone like that despite fighting with a size handicap in almost every fight. Imagine Pac fight Brandon Rios right now...that would be an exciting fan-friendly one-sided beatdown but obviously Pac would get no credit.

In short, the only somehwat competitive fight for Pac is aginst those who fight with the stick-and-move blueprint (actually its more like move and stick when its safe blueprint). Pac has proven he can beat backpedallers and boxers...but it has also proven that its not the exciting kind of Pac fight weve grown accustomed to. Itsa catch-22. Pac's held to a different standard then say Floyd....Floyd gets a pass for getting 12 round "boxing" decisions...thats what expected of him. With Pac, we expect to see back and forth action, give and take...wars of attrition. Thats the problem and where Pac gets alot of unwarranted heat....its a conflict of expectations vs reality. We want to see competitive fights but we also expect to see exciting fights with the Pacman. But the reality is for elite "boxers", theyre never gonna give that knd of fight. The blueprint is out, and its simple really---the best way to be competitive against Pac or to at least make him look pedestrian is to stay away long enough to counter him when he gets impatient or reckless. However, this doesnt guarantee a win but it does guarantee a letdown of expectations. So essentially u will have pac chasing and outworking a guy for 12 'tactical' rounds where there'll be alotta feints alotta lunges alotta defense...but not actually alotta fighting. .
the scary thought (for the competition) is pac outboxing boxers and make it look exciting. that would be the day.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:27 PM   #1701
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Default Re: We all know why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers!

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Originally Posted by FloydPacquiaoJr View Post
clean effective punch 1
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clean effective punch 2
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clean effective punch 3
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clean effective punch 4
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clean effective punch 5
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clean effective punch 6
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clean effective punch 7
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clean effective punch 8
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pac landed more clean effective punches

marquez got "outbox" thats why his face was a mess at the end of the fight

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Pac wins

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good work.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:30 PM   #1702
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Default Re: We all know why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers!

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Originally Posted by sunnn View Post
its the law of big numbers. 1m+ ppv is difficult to sustain. you have to find the right people that matches up well with pac, people that would produce fireworks in the ring against pac. feeding pac with boxers, who can make him look ordinary (though he can still beat them), would sour the audience. thats just the way it is.

floyd will curse his own father on national tv just to sustain his numbers. pac's team will do things to get their numbers too, matching pac with the right people is one of them.
I can understand that, but that's not what was being said a couple yrs back. It was all about Pac fighting the best comp and fighting for the fans the best opponents and biggest challenges, that he didn't fight for money.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:35 PM   #1703
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Default Re: We all know why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers!

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I can understand that, but that's not what was being said a couple yrs back. It was all about Pac fighting the best comp and fighting for the fans the best opponents and biggest challenges, that he didn't fight for money.
at the highest level, the boxing becomes business first and sport 2nd.
pretty boy--->money may.
but you can still angle for money without sacrificing much of the biggest challenges.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:35 PM   #1704
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Default Re: We all know why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers!

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but when the biggest fight at WW between cotto and mayweather back in 2008 was being talked upon, ellerbe has this excuse that cotto was not a draw and floyd actually retired saying he won't let "boxing" retire him. same case with pacquiao when he retired once again "goes into long vacation" during negotiations for a fight.
He asked for 10mil and was only offered 7mil(less money then Margo). Arum basically saying in order for you to get my potential cash cow you are going to have to get less money. You can't make 10mil and beat my future cash cow, where would that leave me.

Thus Mayweather thinking, Cotto can't even get me 10mil guaranteed shit he can't even get me 8mil guaranteed he needs to become a bigger draw. If Cotto would have fought Hoya and defeated Hoya they could have both made 20mil each fighting each other, I believe that was the plan.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:39 PM   #1705
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Default Re: We all know why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers!

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at the highest level, the boxing becomes business first and sport 2nd.
pretty boy--->money may.
but you can still angle for money without sacrificing much of the biggest challenges.
See the thing is I don't care that team Pac does these things to make money and make Pac look like a monster hopefully making exciting fights. The problem is when other people do it they are called cherry pickers and duckers etc.. But its okay when you favorite fighter does it.

All these fighters risking there health and lives in the ring of course will look for the highest compensation possible. I don't really knock none of them for that. But only one guy gets singled out.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:44 PM   #1706
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Default Re: We all know why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers!

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Originally Posted by PaoloMirani View Post
This. I'd venture to say that the majority of Pac fans are fans because of his all-action style. Dude's a fighter, his greatness revolves around outfighting and outmacho-ing a guy in the ring. Put him up against those who fight negative who wants to "tactically" win a fight and your denying most fans of what they wanna see when they go watch Pac fight, ie...a firefight, fireworkks. The problem nowadays is, Pac simply outguns anyone right now who dares challenge him toe-to-toe...and he will actually get criticized if he were matched up with someone like that despite fighting with a size handicap in almost every fight. Imagine Pac fight Brandon Rios right now...that would be an exciting fan-friendly one-sided beatdown but obviously Pac would get no credit.

In short, the only somehwat competitive fight for Pac is aginst those who fight with the stick-and-move blueprint (actually its more like move and stick when its safe blueprint). Pac has proven he can beat backpedallers and boxers...but it has also proven that its not the exciting kind of Pac fight weve grown accustomed to. Itsa catch-22. Pac's held to a different standard then say Floyd....Floyd gets a pass for getting 12 round "boxing" decisions...thats what expected of him. With Pac, we expect to see back and forth action, give and take...wars of attrition. Thats the problem and where Pac gets alot of unwarranted heat....its a conflict of expectations vs reality. We want to see competitive fights but we also expect to see exciting fights with the Pacman. But the reality is for elite "boxers", theyre never gonna give that knd of fight. The blueprint is out, and its simple really---the best way to be competitive against Pac or to at least make him look pedestrian is to stay away long enough to counter him when he gets impatient or reckless. However, this doesnt guarantee a win but it does guarantee a letdown of expectations. So essentially u will have pac chasing and outworking a guy for 12 'tactical' rounds where there'll be alotta feints alotta lunges alotta defense...but not actually alotta fighting. .
good points. jst dont make good points too much. leave room to wiggle for the jmm fans. the more "jmm-wins" posts, the better for pac-marq4. better pac-mar4=better for boxing overall.

the controversy should linger on til the day of pac-marq4.
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:03 PM   #1707
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Default Re: We all know why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers!

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Well anybody with any boxing sense CAN see why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers. Pacman was intentionally kept from boxers like Zahir Raheem, Floyd, Juan Guzman, Tim Bradley, Nate Campbell,Devon Alexander. John David Jackson stress this point about 3 years back that Pacman won't fight slick Black or Hispanic boxers. Pacman cannot box for shyt and that why he lost to Eric Morales( Moralas lost his next fight to Raheem) and arguably 3 times to JMM and would have lost to any of the names mentioned above especially Floyd (that's why this fight is truly not made). Bob Arum wants to "milk" Pacman for as long as he can ( they thought JMM was shot). Fights like Hatton, AM, shot Mosley and DLH and Clottey were not boxers or not what they once were. Those are the facts!!!!

With the exception of Floyd, De La Hoya had more boxing skills than all of these fighters you mentioned.
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:10 PM   #1708
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Default Re: We all know why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers!

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How is he avoiding them when he expresses interest in fighting these guys and they turn him down? Mosley turned him down on multiple occasions. There's video of him out there making excuse as to why he didn't want to fight Mayweather. I have no idea how you could claim he avoided Tszyu. Your argument seems to be that if the fight didn't happen, then Mayweather ducked these guys. That of course is ridiculous. Many of those guys you mentioned wouldn't stand a chance against Mayweather. And if Pacquiao is as convinced as you are that Mayweather has been avoiding him, then it's very surprising that he's wavering on the fight. You would think that he would jump at the opportunity, but that has yet to happen.

So what's Floyd's defense for ducking Williams, when he was at 147 and hot off his victory of Margarito? What's his defense for not fighting Martinez, who is still calling him out today?
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:14 PM   #1709
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Default Re: We all know why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers!

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Originally Posted by hussleman View Post
Well anybody with any boxing sense CAN see why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers. Pacman was intentionally kept from boxers like Zahir Raheem, Floyd, Juan Guzman, Tim Bradley, Nate Campbell,Devon Alexander. John David Jackson stress this point about 3 years back that Pacman won't fight slick Black or Hispanic boxers. Pacman cannot box for shyt and that why he lost to Eric Morales( Moralas lost his next fight to Raheem) and arguably 3 times to JMM and would have lost to any of the names mentioned above especially Floyd (that's why this fight is truly not made). Bob Arum wants to "milk" Pacman for as long as he can ( they thought JMM was shot). Fights like Hatton, AM, shot Mosley and DLH and Clottey were not boxers or not what they once were. Those are the facts!!!!
Pac would destroy bradly and Devon. I do agree that he is milking PAC and has purposely kept him away from slick black/ hispanic boxers. If you look at Cotto vs PAC round 1, when Cotto boxed he had success. He tried to brawl and fight was over. Boxing fans knew this all of along about PAC and so does Arum.

PAC was at his best when he was reckless, but not that he is "refined" he degressed because he is more predictable. Your average so called "fan" isn't educated to see team PAC's hustle. Clottey was a "token" fighter. Everyone knows that he doesn't fight black fighters. When the Floyd fight didn't go through. He immediately put PAC in the ring with Clottey and we watch Clottey stand around and take a dive.
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:21 PM   #1710
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Default Re: We all know why Team Pac dosen't let Pacman fight boxers!

The "slick black" boxer is a myth. I don't think Bradley is slicker than Martinez or even Guerrero. You change his nationality and color then Bradley would be another "Mexican" fighter. He comes forward purposely with his head to protect him.
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