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View Poll Results: Mayweather vs. Pacquiao is now meaningless?
Agree 350 47.88%
Disagree 381 52.12%
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:54 AM   #2056
Vidic
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Default Re: Floyd's overrated skill .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gander Tasco View Post
His skill level is extremely overrated... He gets treated like god in terms of his boxing skill , and hes not even the smartest man in boxing right now.

His style is not that hard to figure out. Defensively he uses the shoulder roll almost exclusively. His counters basically boil down to a straight right hand over the jab or a check hook... sometimes an uppercut. He pulls his head straight back from punches which is why hes easy to hit with the jab.

Offensively, he throws basically 1 of 3 punches, a jab , a lead hook , or a lead right hand. He throws them in singles, rarely ever in combinations. He telegraphs his lead right hand before he throws it. He throws his left hook wide. If you can break down a shoulder roll D you can break Floyd down. All you have to watch out of for is his left hook, his right hand, because thats all hes' got. Watch the De La Hoya fight, Floyd could barely penetrate through a substandard defense because he doesnt know how to put punches together, and he doesnt attack the body either.

What makes Floyd (or made him) so hard to beat was his style, super tight defense, and his crazy athletic ability and speed. Even if you got a guy figured out it's not easy when he's as fast or athletic as Floyd is, when he can get punches off and get out of the way before you have a chance to return fire. But even Castillo proved that without speed, that with some solid fundamentals and a little bit of cleverness, you can make Floyd look totally beatable. It didnt take god to do it either , just Jose Luis Castillo. And even a '1 fight away from retirement' Oscar made him look completely ordinary.
You are actually a crazed hater
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:11 AM   #2057
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Default Re: Floyd's overrated skill .....

dude just wants a reaction.....if mayweathers skill is overrated and he is the most adaptable fighter with the highest ring iq....what does that say about everyone else....i guys they are overrated to because Mayweather sets the bar
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:16 AM   #2058
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Default Re: Floyd's overrated skill .....

I'm a fan...however HIS LEGS ARE MORE OR LESS SHOT....

Compare the Marquez fight to the Ortiz fight...he is still a gifted athlete however comparing how his legs used to be THEY ARE SHOT (comparing him with his past performances, not shot campared to other fighters.)
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:19 AM   #2059
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Default Re: Floyd's overrated skill .....

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Originally Posted by Dipset View Post
I'm a fan...however HIS LEGS ARE MORE OR LESS SHOT....

Compare the Marquez fight to the Ortiz fight...he is still a gifted athlete however comparing how his legs used to be THEY ARE SHOT (comparing him with his past performances, not shot campared to other fighters.)
His legs are most certainly not shot. Ever since the Sugar Fight, He's been using a comeforward style, if he wanted to move around the ring more he could. Just look at him bob and weave, then reposition himself out of the way from sugars punches
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:20 AM   #2060
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Default Re: Floyd's overrated skill .....

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Originally Posted by Dipset View Post
I'm a fan...however HIS LEGS ARE MORE OR LESS SHOT....

Compare the Marquez fight to the Ortiz fight...he is still a gifted athlete however comparing how his legs used to be THEY ARE SHOT (comparing him with his past performances, not shot campared to other fighters.)
dudes 35 years old....as fighter age and go up in weight of course they are not gonna move as often or as swiftly...i wouldnt say his legs are shot because when he needs to be on the move he can be....tactically he wouldnt have benefited using his legs against Ortiz or Mosley...neither guys fights well backing up...whereas Marquez is a counterpuncher....the best way to beat a counterpuncher is beat them to the punch and let them be the aggressor another tactical move
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:26 AM   #2061
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Default Re: Floyd's overrated skill .....

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Originally Posted by pugilistspecialist View Post
dudes 35 years old....as fighter age and go up in weight of course they are not gonna move as often or as swiftly...i wouldnt say his legs are shot because when he needs to be on the move he can be....tactically he wouldnt have benefited using his legs against Ortiz or Mosley...neither guys fights well backing up...whereas Marquez is a counterpuncher....the best way to beat a counterpuncher is beat them to the punch and let them be the aggressor another tactical move
It is not a criticism...It's my observation...yes we all know styles make fights and energy conserving tactics because of age (I never mentioned Mosley for that specific reason)....All the things you mentioned I'm aware of believe me..that why it is so apparant to me these reason are not the case....his legs have deteriorated in my opinon...
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:36 AM   #2062
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Default Re: Floyd's overrated skill .....

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Originally Posted by Gander Tasco View Post
His skill level is extremely overrated... He gets treated like god in terms of his boxing skill , and hes not even the smartest man in boxing right now.

His style is not that hard to figure out. Defensively he uses the shoulder roll almost exclusively. His counters basically boil down to a straight right hand over the jab or a check hook... sometimes an uppercut. He pulls his head straight back from punches which is why hes easy to hit with the jab.

Offensively, he throws basically 1 of 3 punches, a jab , a lead hook , or a lead right hand. He throws them in singles, rarely ever in combinations. He telegraphs his lead right hand before he throws it. He throws his left hook wide. If you can break down a shoulder roll D you can break Floyd down. All you have to watch out of for is his left hook, his right hand, because thats all hes' got. Watch the De La Hoya fight, Floyd could barely penetrate through a substandard defense because he doesnt know how to put punches together, and he doesnt attack the body either.

What makes Floyd (or made him) so hard to beat was his style, super tight defense, and his crazy athletic ability and speed. Even if you got a guy figured out it's not easy when he's as fast or athletic as Floyd is, when he can get punches off and get out of the way before you have a chance to return fire. But even Castillo proved that without speed, that with some solid fundamentals and a little bit of cleverness, you can make Floyd look totally beatable. It didnt take god to do it either , just Jose Luis Castillo. And even a '1 fight away from retirement' Oscar made him look completely ordinary.
You forgot to add the fine print. In order to expose all that you have to be an A+ fighter, have size, speed, chin, athleticism, boxing skills, jab, ko power in both hands, amazing foot work, angles, defense, young in and in your prime, battle tested and proven.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:45 AM   #2063
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Default Re: Floyd's overrated skill .....

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Originally Posted by pejevan View Post
He is actually very predictable. Right overhand punch is like a telegraphed punch.
no wonder pactards never discuss actual boxing
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:53 AM   #2064
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Default Re: Floyd's overrated skill .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipset View Post
It is not a criticism...It's my observation...yes we all know styles make fights and energy conserving tactics because of age (I never mentioned Mosley for that specific reason)....All the things you mentioned I'm aware of believe me..that why it is so apparant to me these reason are not the case....his legs have deteriorated in my opinon...
i agree they deterioated but they arent shot...id say they are 85% of what they were but thats still better 95% of the other boxers
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:17 PM   #2065
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Default Re: Floyd's overrated skill .....

He's very skilled.

In terms of negatives to his overall style, it's hard to think of many. He's quite a complete fighter. The only things I can think of are:

- His low workrate leaves him vulnerable to people who can throw combinations consistently in a fight. In a close round, workrate can swing it, which is something that Hoya showed us when he fought Floyd.

- Donaire, amongst others,has pointed out that the shoulder-roll stance leaves you open to the southpaw left. The shoulder-roll is well equipped to deal with an orthodox fighter's power hand, but the southpaw power hand comes from a different angle, and it's harder to roll with:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

It's still possible to roll against the southpaw, of course. Floyd did it against Ortiz at times. The point is that it's more risky, and you're more vulnerable than usual. Mayweather always has the option of switching to the high guard instead, but that guard is more limiting in terms of vision and mobility, and it also leaves his body more exposed.

- If you have a good jab, you can trouble Mayweather. (Then again, a good jab troubles everyone.) Shane doesn't have much of a jab, and he was still able to use it to set up the right hand that hurt Floyd.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

De La Hoya was able to have success using the jab to set up the right, something I hadn't noticed until I saw [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. If you back Floyd up to the ropes, you can use the jab to the body (or simply feint it) and catch him with the right hand over the top. Marquez also landed like this:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:20 PM   #2066
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Default Re: Floyd's overrated skill .....

Most glaring flaws are that he leaves his chin in the air at times, and that he moves back in straight lines when you back him from behind the jab.
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:25 PM   #2067
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Default Re: Floyd's overrated skill .....

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Originally Posted by Gooners2 View Post
Most glaring flaws are that he leaves his chin in the air at times, and that he moves back in straight lines when you back him from behind the jab.

great post its weird no one has taken advantage of that...ive always said guys like he and roy jones will get beat by guys that jab or punch with them
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:27 PM   #2068
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Default Re: Floyd's overrated skill .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outboxer View Post
He's very skilled.

In terms of negatives to his overall style, it's hard to think of many. He's quite a complete fighter. The only things I can think of are:

- His low workrate leaves him vulnerable to people who can throw combinations consistently in a fight. In a close round, workrate can swing it, which is something that Hoya showed us when he fought Floyd.

- Donaire, amongst others,has pointed out that the shoulder-roll stance leaves you open to the southpaw left. The shoulder-roll is well equipped to deal with an orthodox fighter's power hand, but the southpaw power hand comes from a different angle, and it's harder to roll with:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

It's still possible to roll against the southpaw, of course. Floyd did it against Ortiz at times. The point is that it's more risky, and you're more vulnerable than usual. Mayweather always has the option of switching to the high guard instead, but that guard is more limiting in terms of vision and mobility, and it also leaves his body more exposed.

- If you have a good jab, you can trouble Mayweather. (Then again, a good jab troubles everyone.) Shane doesn't have much of a jab, and he was still able to use it to set up the right hand that hurt Floyd.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

De La Hoya was able to have success using the jab to set up the right, something I hadn't noticed until I saw [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. If you back Floyd up to the ropes, you can use the jab to the body (or simply feint it) and catch him with the right hand over the top. Marquez also landed like this:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

great post the shoulder roll is susceptible to the southpaw straight left, but its a testiment to his skills thta once he is hit or buzzed he adjusts and hardly gets hit with the same punch again.....Against Corely he made the shoulder roll work against a southpaw by being persistant, anticpation, and reflexes...Against Judah he gauged how well he'd do with it and changed his game plan to coming forward with both hands up peek a boo style, against Ortiz he was like cut the crap its only effective at certain times and only used it against the ropes.
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:35 PM   #2069
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Default Re: Floyd's overrated skill .....

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Originally Posted by pejevan View Post
He is actually very predictable. Right overhand punch is like a telegraphed punch.
Funny that he has the highest punch to punched ratio in compubox history isn't it?
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:10 PM   #2070
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Default Re: Floyd's overrated skill .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outboxer View Post
He's very skilled.

In terms of negatives to his overall style, it's hard to think of many. He's quite a complete fighter. The only things I can think of are:

- His low workrate leaves him vulnerable to people who can throw combinations consistently in a fight. In a close round, workrate can swing it, which is something that Hoya showed us when he fought Floyd.

- Donaire, amongst others,has pointed out that the shoulder-roll stance leaves you open to the southpaw left. The shoulder-roll is well equipped to deal with an orthodox fighter's power hand, but the southpaw power hand comes from a different angle, and it's harder to roll with:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

It's still possible to roll against the southpaw, of course. Floyd did it against Ortiz at times. The point is that it's more risky, and you're more vulnerable than usual. Mayweather always has the option of switching to the high guard instead, but that guard is more limiting in terms of vision and mobility, and it also leaves his body more exposed.

- If you have a good jab, you can trouble Mayweather. (Then again, a good jab troubles everyone.) Shane doesn't have much of a jab, and he was still able to use it to set up the right hand that hurt Floyd.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

De La Hoya was able to have success using the jab to set up the right, something I hadn't noticed until I saw [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. If you back Floyd up to the ropes, you can use the jab to the body (or simply feint it) and catch him with the right hand over the top. Marquez also landed like this:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
All of these are pretty much one time shots. They might work once, but after he's seen it , he will take it away and dominate.
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