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View Poll Results: Mayweather vs. Pacquiao is now meaningless?
Agree 356 48.04%
Disagree 385 51.96%
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:12 AM   #2656
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Default Re: Is Floyd pulling close to Pacquiao legacy-wise?

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Originally Posted by PugilisticPower View Post
Revisionist history, You're a ****ing mook, I swear it.

Cotto didn't exactly perform with distinction against Clottey and wasn't at his best in that fight. The fact that he weighed in "one pound over" the eventual catch weight decided by Pacquaio is almost irrelvant, no one can deny that the Cotto we've since seen at 154 is revitalised and producing his best performance since Pre-Margarito.

"Forces JMM up to 144 in a catchweight" - oh, but when JMM fights and beats Pacquaio at 147, he's not bloated funny that.

"Makes a midget like Ricky Hatton fight at 147" - adversed to making a late 30s fighter come down from 154 to fight him at 147?

Every thing you say reflects even worse on Pacquaio - because he's done the exact same shit but hasn't done it as well as Mayweather. The reason you don't understand this is because you have absolutely no objectivity.

You'd probably even argue that Pacquaio isn't the reason the fight Mayweather proposed for May 5th vs Pacquaio didn't take place and it was Mayweathers fault.

You're so ****ing stupid, I wish I could punch you in the face.
pacquiao simply offered 50/50 and floyd offered a money that doesn't give pac any PPV share. we all know floyd outpriced himself out of the fight. he also felt that pac is a risk for his health (floyd's own words). we all know what happened to bradley (both legs casted), cotto and margarito when pac fought them. floyd doesn't want this type of risk.
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:12 AM   #2657
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Default Re: Is Floyd pulling close to Pacquiao legacy-wise?

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Originally Posted by PugilisticPower View Post
Revisionist history, You're a ****ing mook, I swear it.

Cotto didn't exactly perform with distinction against Clottey and wasn't at his best in that fight. The fact that he weighed in "one pound over" the eventual catch weight decided by Pacquaio is almost irrelvant, no one can deny that the Cotto we've since seen at 154 is revitalised and producing his best performance since Pre-Margarito.

"Forces JMM up to 144 in a catchweight" - oh, but when JMM fights and beats Pacquaio at 147, he's not bloated funny that.

"Makes a midget like Ricky Hatton fight at 147" - adversed to making a late 30s fighter come down from 154 to fight him at 147?

Every thing you say reflects even worse on Pacquaio - because he's done the exact same shit but hasn't done it as well as Mayweather. The reason you don't understand this is because you have absolutely no objectivity.

You'd probably even argue that Pacquaio isn't the reason the fight Mayweather proposed for May 5th vs Pacquaio didn't take place and it was Mayweathers fault.

You're so ****ing stupid, I wish I could punch you in the face.


Why you gettin' mad for, bro? It's just a discussion.

You have no right to speak about objectivity, by the way. A man who complains about Cotto being weight-drained, has no problems with celebrating a Calzaghe win over Eubank.

And seriously, you felt the need to to respond to those points -- which I've clearly said and admit are ridiculous!
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:14 AM   #2658
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Default Re: Is Floyd pulling close to Pacquiao legacy-wise?

You spelt it out yourself, Pacquaio has fought almost twice as many times since 2008 when compared to Floyd yet Floyd has earnt more money in that period.

Pacquaio doesn't deserve 50/50 but for the purposes of the fight in Las Vegas in May, the response from Arum was "But the fight will be bigger in Texas in June" - only, Pacquaio ends up fighting in Vegas also in June.

Face facts, Arum is the reason we haven't seen Pacquaio get absolutely ****ing trashed by Floyd in the ring. One day, Pacquaio will learn to thank him,.
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:17 AM   #2659
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Default Re: Is Floyd pulling close to Pacquiao legacy-wise?

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post


Why you gettin' mad for, bro? It's just a discussion.

You have no right to speak about objectivity, by the way. A man who complains about Cotto being weight-drained, has no problems with celebrating a Calzaghe win over Eubank.

And seriously, you felt the need to to respond to those points -- which I've clearly said and admit are ridiculous!
More than likely a combination of your ****ing retarded opinions and your ****ing retarded avatar - the worst writer in boxing currently.

Calzaghe - Green Fighter in his very first title fight, fighting a highly experienced former title holder - If it was the 42-0 version of Calzaghe beating that Eubank, not as much of a victory I agree. But everyone seems to forget the fact that in essence, that was Calzaghe's first major fight. That's why you rate that victory, because it's a "young lion" beating an "old pro"

Are you denying that Cotto has had his best performances since Margarito at 154? Are you denying that he looked like shit against Clottey and was lucky to escape? I mean seriously. Do you really think Cotto was a better fighter at 145 than he is at 154? If you do, you've answered exactly why I want to punch you in the ****ing face, stupid people only learn through violence.
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:21 AM   #2660
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Default Re: Is Floyd pulling close to Pacquiao legacy-wise?

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Originally Posted by Boxing Fanatic View Post
i would say hes improved. cotto gave him a good fight even though he won clearly. i just wish he had more balls, though. y couldnt he face mosley, cotto in their primes?
Mystifies me why people like you keep asking this question when it couldn't be any more apparent than it is right now.
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:24 AM   #2661
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Default Re: Is Floyd pulling close to Pacquiao legacy-wise?

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Originally Posted by daprofessor View Post
pac's legacy is all smoke and mirrors. his best wins were against barrera, morales and marquez. floyd was fighter of the year in '98 and '08. his biggest wins have all come on EVEN PLAYING FIELDS. pac had to have things tipped in his favor for his wins.
My thoughts also. Pac has been living off of those great small weight wins. Everything from Diaz on up has in some way been against compromised fighters. Obviously his way of fighting has always added to greatness, but I want to see those skills against opponents that are even and then see what happens.
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:31 AM   #2662
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Default Re: Is Floyd pulling close to Pacquiao legacy-wise?

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Originally Posted by PaoloMirani View Post
I used Hearns as an extreme example to show how a significant reach gives one an advantage. The point is, reach is part of the equation when discussing size (size=physical dimensions). Part of the reason why boxing pundits put Pac in high regard is the way he's overcome his lack of it while campaigning at welter. Even at heavyweight, the taller longer guy with the longer jab trends to win...see Ali-Frazier, Lewis/Tyson. Wladimir/anyone....If you look back, the last person to decisively beat Pac was Morales, who worked behind a longer spearing jab that neutralized pac's offense. So when assessing resumes between the 2, that's also part of the equation as to where and why each rank respectively. Floyd is a true welter, Pac is a blown up lighweight campaigning at welter, and the way Pac has dominated despite this handicap is why he's comprehensively ranked higher than Floyd on any atg list.

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Really?! Have you compared their physical stats? They are almost identical. Besides, Pac was fighting guys at 130 and coming into the ring at 144. I have never seen the "bigger" man Floyd put on 14 lbs in any division he has fought in. I guess Pac just like to beat up on smaller guys, eh?!
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:34 AM   #2663
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Default Re: Is Floyd pulling close to Pacquiao legacy-wise?

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Originally Posted by PaoloMirani View Post
I thought you were a smart guy? Bigger frame... put in another way, if they're both mandated to fight at 150, Pac has to work his ass off to maintain and attain that weight whereas Floyd has the natural frame to carry it. You're a college graduate, that shouldn't be too hard to comprehend.
So PW is really the size of a HW since his frame is big enough to carry the weight? Seems you need to learn about human physiology before you make blanket ASSumptions like you are with the whole frame issue.
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:40 AM   #2664
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Default Re: Is Floyd pulling close to Pacquiao legacy-wise?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman View Post
Pacquiao's first two defeats were when he was a kid and fighting to eat. Losing is never good, but they have little to no impact on his legacy to me. His third defeat was to Erik Morales, who is a god. His two draws, in fact, were both terrible decisions - one being a scoring mistake and the other a product of disgraceful judging in a fight he should've won by DQ before it even got to the cards.
Fighting to eat, but lost his belt on the scales because he couldn't make weight Has since the EM loss fought multiple opponents at catchweights HE demanded, yet wouldn't give EM a catch weight fight even after they said EM was killing himself to make weight and had just lost to Raheem.

Turbo, perhaps a variable to consider would be how many times they fought opponents coming off losses/wins
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:45 AM   #2665
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Default Re: Is Floyd pulling close to Pacquiao legacy-wise?

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Originally Posted by PugilisticPower View Post
More than likely a combination of your ****ing retarded opinions and your ****ing retarded avatar - the worst writer in boxing currently.
The fact that you can let a tongue-in-cheek avatar kick sand in your vagina so easily, speaks volumes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PugilisticPower View Post
Calzaghe - Green Fighter in his very first title fight, fighting a highly experienced former title holder - If it was the 42-0 version of Calzaghe beating that Eubank, not as much of a victory I agree. But everyone seems to forget the fact that in essence, that was Calzaghe's first major fight. That's why you rate that victory, because it's a "young lion" beating an "old pro"

Yes, go ahead, drum up all of the positives for that win over a past-prime, taking-the-fight-on-short-notice, weight-drained fighter that would go on to lose his remaining fights before retirement.....whilst ignoring the positives surrounding Pac's win, which include:
  • A career featherweight being matched against a welterweight.
  • Only one fight prior, Pac's chances against that same welterweight were being laughed off.
  • A catchweight of some sort being a given -- by the fans and the parties involved -- before the fight even came to fruition.
  • The catchweight of 145 not being a controversial issue before the fight for anyone - including the fans and Cotto's team themselves.
  • The catchweight of 145 also not being a controversial issue immediately after the fight - including the fans and Cotto's team themselves.
Go ahead, ignore all of that.

Because like I said, a Calzaghe dick-riding fan-boy like yourself, shouldn't be lecturing anyone about objectivity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PugilisticPower View Post
Are you denying that Cotto has had his best performances since Margarito at 154? Are you denying that he looked like shit against Clottey and was lucky to escape? I mean seriously. Do you really think Cotto was a better fighter at 145 than he is at 154? If you do, you've answered exactly why I want to punch you in the ****ing face, stupid people only learn through violence.
I am not denying Cotto looked good against Floyd. Nor am I denying he looked poor against Clottey. However, I am not going to believe that by beating a one-legged Foreman, a shot-to-shit Mayorga, and a one-eyed Marg that wasn't even fit to be in a ring, made Cotto all of a sudden the best he's ever been since 2008. That's just outright retarded. Against Floyd, he was without doubt better prepared tactically and more confident mentally, but those two things alone didn't make him the best he's been. Since the Marg defeat, his punch-resistence has deteriorated (worsened more since Pac) and his sharpness and handspeed hasn't re-surfaced since his welterweight days, either. Part of the reason why he looked more impressive against Floyd than he did Pac, was because he was much better suited to Floyd's style. He'll always have easier time when forcing a boxer into a brawl, as opposed to brawling with a better brawler who represents all of the things he's always hated -- aggression, power and volume. Simple assumptions like "Duhhhh, Cotto looked good vs Floyd, but very very bad vs Pac, so errrr, that mean Cotto vs Floyd better ", don't cut it in this case.

Oh, and...

Quote:
...stupid people only learn through violence
Correction - stupid people only resort to violence. Especially when they can't engage in a grown-up discussion.

(*****)

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Old 06-19-2012, 10:48 AM   #2666
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Default Re: Is Floyd pulling close to Pacquiao legacy-wise?

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Originally Posted by Jack View Post
To answer the question, no, Pacquiao ranks ahead of Mayweather by a long way. Cotto was a good opponent but there is nobody under 168lbs who Mayweather could beat to overtake Pacquiao.

Pacquiao will always be considered the greater fighter.
Now he would have to fight a SMW in order to even be mentioned in the same breath as Pac? Can you tell me the greatest weight disparity that the great SRR ever fought an opponent at and then tell me why Floyd would need to almost double that in order to gain any respect.
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:50 AM   #2667
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Default Re: Is Floyd pulling close to Pacquiao legacy-wise?

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post


Cotto weighs one pound less than the previous bout, shows no signs in the fight of being drained, doesn't even complain about it himself......yet the fans on messageboards know more and suddenly declare him weak - despite them having no issues with the catchweight before and immediately after the fight.

Laughable.





If we take the same route -- you know, pick up on every imperfection surrounding a fight to discredit the win -- then Floyd's resume would never be free, either:
  • Beats a weight-drained Corrales - that's right, Diego was struggling with his weight at the time. Oh, and he was mentally distracted with having to go to prison, apparently.
  • Forces JMM up to 144 in a catchweight he doesn't even stick to. JMM looked was bloated - as opposed to what he was against Pac.
  • Faces a 15-month inactive and overtrained Mosley.
  • Makes a midget Ricky Hatton come up to 147 to face him.
  • Takes on a Miguel Cotto 3-4 years too late after he'd taken career-damaging beatings from Marg and Pac.
  • Beats on a Zab Judah coming off a loss to Baldomir
See how ridiculous all of the above sound?

No fighter's record is free from crappy little nit-picks like the above.

It's also worth mentioning, Pacquiao has a lower-weight legacy he's proud of, too. His run in the bantam-featherweight days speaks volumes.
Ok, I'll give you the Corrales excuse, though he would have got punished regardless of weight. (RIP Chico)

JMM didnt look bloated at all. Floyd beat him for 12 rds with skill not a size advatntage. JMM landed 12% of his shots, hard to blame that on size. Plus he was almost 3 years older when he fought Pac at the same weight but yet gave him a harder fight than their previous 2.

Overtrained? Lets see the Berto fight was cancelled in January. He and Money fought in May. You really think that Mosely continued to train with the same intensity from Jan to May?

First off Ricky actually weighed more than Floyd fight night, it was his second fight at 147 and Floyd just 6 months earlier had moved up to 154 (though he weighed 150bs) to fight ODLH. he was the P4P #1, if Ricky woanted to fight him meet him at his weight (which Ricky had no issue with, he didnt ask for a catcweight). You think Floyd would go from weighing in 1t 150 all the way down to 140 in the same year? Argument null and void!

Lets see when Pac faced Cotto, Miguel was :
- 145 lbs (yet they fought for the 147 belt, ). And if it was only 1 lb below his previous fight with Clottey, why make him lose that 1lb?
- Coming off a VERY TOUGH fight with Clottey, in which he suffered a major cut above the eye in July 09, yet Pac faces less than 6 months later (but later says he couldnt fight Floyd less than 6 months b/c of a lesser cut which actaully stopped bleeding during the fight, against JMM)
- 2 fights removed from a possible physical cheating as well as a pyschological beating against A. Margarito.
- Not only with a choildhood friend who never trained a major fight before in his life, but was also removed from his longtime trainer and uncle.

When May faced cotto, Miguel was:
- Coming off 3 consecutive stoppages (Foreman, Mayorga and Margarito)
- Gained his confidence (at least pyschologically) by beating Margarito in rematch
- Weighed in at a comfortable 154lbs
- Had 2 fights with Emanuel Stewart (possibly the best traner ever) and 1 fight with the great cuban trainer of the Cuban Olympic Boxing team
- Not to mention, wsa offered his highest payday with Floyd after being asked again to come down in weight (this time back down 7lbs to 147lbs!) for a rematch with Pac.

Yep, Floyd fought the same Cotto ... smh

No comment on the Judah fight, but he did go onto shut Baldimor out right after this fight with Judah.

Yes Pac has a great lower weight legacy but Floyd's is just as good, IMO.
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:51 AM   #2668
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Default Re: Is Floyd pulling close to Pacquiao legacy-wise?

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You guys are joking about Pac and May being similar in size right? Pac is a 140 pounder and Floyd is a 145-155 pounder. Floyd can baloon up to 160 if he wants to and Pacquai can go up to as high as 152. Pac was malnourished like any poor kid growing up.

Yes, Pacquiao's resume at this point is greater than May mainly due to fighting the 3 mexican legends.
How did he miss weight being malnourished?!
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:04 AM   #2669
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Default Re: Is Floyd pulling close to Pacquiao legacy-wise?

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Ok, I'll give you the Corrales excuse, though he would have got punished regardless of weight. (RIP Chico)

JMM didnt look bloated at all. Floyd beat him for 12 rds with skill not a size advatntage. JMM landed 12% of his shots, hard to blame that on size. Plus he was almost 3 years older when he fought Pac at the same weight but yet gave him a harder fight than their previous 2.

Overtrained? Lets see the Berto fight was cancelled in January. He and Money fought in May. You really think that Mosely continued to train with the same intensity from Jan to May?

First off Ricky actually weighed more than Floyd fight night, it was his second fight at 147 and Floyd just 6 months earlier had moved up to 154 (though he weighed 150bs) to fight ODLH. he was the P4P #1, if Ricky woanted to fight him meet him at his weight (which Ricky had no issue with, he didnt ask for a catcweight). You think Floyd would go from weighing in 1t 150 all the way down to 140 in the same year? Argument null and void!

Lets see when Pac faced Cotto, Miguel was :
- 145 lbs (yet they fought for the 147 belt, ). And if it was only 1 lb below his previous fight with Clottey, why make him lose that 1lb?
- Coming off a VERY TOUGH fight with Clottey, in which he suffered a major cut above the eye in July 09, yet Pac faces less than 6 months later (but later says he couldnt fight Floyd less than 6 months b/c of a lesser cut which actaully stopped bleeding during the fight, against JMM)
- 2 fights removed from a possible physical cheating as well as a pyschological beating against A. Margarito.
- Not only with a choildhood friend who never trained a major fight before in his life, but was also removed from his longtime trainer and uncle.

When May faced cotto, Miguel was:
- Coming off 3 consecutive stoppages (Foreman, Mayorga and Margarito)
- Gained his confidence (at least pyschologically) by beating Margarito in rematch
- Weighed in at a comfortable 154lbs
- Had 2 fights with Emanuel Stewart (possibly the best traner ever) and 1 fight with the great cuban trainer of the Cuban Olympic Boxing team
- Not to mention, wsa offered his highest payday with Floyd after being asked again to come down in weight (this time back down 7lbs to 147lbs!) for a rematch with Pac.

Yep, Floyd fought the same Cotto ... smh

No comment on the Judah fight, but he did go onto shut Baldimor out right after this fight with Judah.

Yes Pac has a great lower weight legacy but Floyd's is just as good, IMO.
My man, thanks for taking the time to reply, but it wasn't necessary. I don't believe any of those points I've just made. I've actually said they're ridiculous. I only wrote them to illustrate the point that you can try and pick holes (and exaggerate them) in anyone's resume.

And please, don't "give me" the Corrales excuse. I don't want it. I agree, Floyd would have beat him like that regardless.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:08 AM   #2670
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Default Re: Is Floyd pulling close to Pacquiao legacy-wise?

On the common victories there are arguments on both sides - Pac was more dominant against Oscar, Pac knocked down Mosely, Oscar was older and drained when he fought Pac, Mosely was older and Floyd dominated Mosley albeit in a different way than Pac. So cancel out the common wins and what do you have.

Floyd completely dominated JMM (a f'ing tune up fight) who Pac had a draw and at best three hard fought victories (at worst JMM was robbed). Then Floyd has Hernandez, Corrales and Castillo (x2) and has inarguably dominated nearly every round of every fight.

Pac has Morales, Margo and Barrera with losses to Morales, Bradley another draw and two other ko losses. Pac has been dominant in many fights.

Given that, is it close?
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