Randy Couture should fight James Toney in a Boxing Match. Why?

[James23]

Originally Posted by JonOli

No you can't, you can't do anything eg head butting is banned is it not?

It limits and favours certain skills.

In the arena and setting it is made up in, one could say it favours wrestling.

eg If you went wrestling someone in the road in a real brawl, on concrete, perhaps involving a group of people, you'd be very vunerible, in the MMA environment wrestling thrives.

Oh goodie...I have to be as specific as I would if proving a math theory.

In combat athletics, it allows everything. If you want to box, go ahead and box. You want to try and fight thai? Go ahead. You want to wrestle? Be my guest. You want to submit the other guy? Give it a shot. Just be wary, the other guy isn't always going to comply.

MMA favors grapplers because grappling is a proven more effective way of winning a fight.

Not sure how much clearer I can be.

[Popkins]

Originally Posted by James23

No. I told you not to try again, and you did anyway...just terrible.

I agree with most of what you've said, but MMA is relatively new. It is just now becoming a style in itself. If you've got no combat training experience then yes, you can become a pure mixed martial artist. But, other then that, you're a boxer/thai fighter/wrestler/BJJ fighter/Karate stylist turned mixed martial artist. You begin with a base and branch out into other styles. That is how it's worked for 99% of all MMA fighters today. Myself included.

And yes, I agree. A pure anything isn't going to have success at the highest levels. I must have missed where I said they would. Please, point that out to me. I did say that MMA competition tends to favor grapplers. This is undisputable. Grappling gives you the greatest control over a fight. What I will say is that a pure grappler will have a greater chance then a pure striker.

So, sir, you please educate yourself before you try and talk back to someone who has been involved in martial arts since they were 4 years old and has been actively training in Mixed Martial Arts for over 5 years.

Please, take my advice this time, like you should have last time. Do not try again.

You said that what I said was terrible... told me not to try again... but basically climbed down and agreed with everything I said...


Congratulations, you've invented a new way to fail all of your own!



ps: How can you train MMA when you don't seem to understand it at all?

[James23]

Originally Posted by Popkins

The TS is talking about MMA as if it's still UFC1, FFS!!!

He clearly hasn't learned the very obvious lesson that tonight should have taught everyone about people from different disciplines trying MMA.

Read above. You're trying way too hard. Stop.

[Popkins]

Originally Posted by James23

Oh goodie...I have to be as specific as I would if proving a math theory.

In combat athletics, it allows everything. If you want to box, go ahead and box. You want to try and fight thai? Go ahead. You want to wrestle? Be my guest. You want to submit the other guy? Give it a shot. Just be wary, the other guy isn't always going to comply.

MMA favors grapplers because grappling is a proven more effective way of winning a fight.

Not sure how much clearer I can be.

This thread is lurching from bad to worse.

The parts in red yet again are abysmal. That isn't how MMA works at all. Weren't you watching Couture-Toney tonight??

You can't "go ahead and box" at all. That doesn't fly because it's a completely different sport.

[JonOli]

Originally Posted by James23

Oh goodie...I have to be as specific as I would if proving a math theory.

In combat athletics, it allows everything. If you want to box, go ahead and box. You want to try and fight thai? Go ahead. You want to wrestle? Be my guest. You want to submit the other guy? Give it a shot. Just be wary, the other guy isn't always going to comply.

MMA favors grapplers because grappling is a proven more effective way of winning a fight.

Not sure how much clearer I can be.

You've just repeated what I responded to in the first place, I refer you to my reply.

[James23]

Originally Posted by Popkins

You said that what I said was terrible... told me not to try again... but basically climbed down and agreed with everything I said...


Congratulations, you've invented a new way to fail all of your own!



ps: How can you train MMA when you don't seem to understand it at all?

This is getting painful.

I agree with you on what MMA is becoming. You're stated it as a blanket statement as this is what MMA is and always has been. This is where you are wrong. I'll say it again. This is where you are wrong. MMA has been exactly as I described for 99% of it's practicioners.

And how can I? Simple. I go to the gym...pay the gym fees and learn the techniques from my instructors. Easy game. You should try it, it's fun. Might learn something.

Please...stop trying.

[James23]

Originally Posted by Popkins

This thread is lurching from bad to worse.

The parts in red yet again are abysmal. That isn't how MMA works at all. Weren't you watching Couture-Toney tonight??

You can't "go ahead and box" at all. That doesn't fly because it's a completely different sport.

I'm now convinced you either have an optical problem or you're like most boxing fans and only see what you want to see. Guess you skipped over this part after all the red stuff.

"Just be wary, the other guy isn't always going to comply."

Context. It's important.

[Popkins]

Originally Posted by JonOli

You've just repeated what I responded to in the first place, I refer you to my reply.

That's exactly what this chump did to me on the previous page!! He criticized me, whilst he was changing position and agreeing with what I'd said.

This thread is a crap joke and the starter a crap joker.

[JonOli]

I'm out of here.

[Popkins]

Anyone fancy building the TS a time machine so he can join the rest of us in the 21st century??

He is clearly stuck in the early-mid 90s thinking he just watched UFC1.

[James23]

Originally Posted by Popkins

That's exactly what this chump did to me on the previous page!! He criticized me, whilst he was changing position and agreeing with what I'd said.

This thread is a crap joke and the starter a crap joker.

Not even close. But, if you want to just have someone agree with you, I guess the guys from the General Boxing Forum stick together like a frat house party, so you got that...both incorrect, but if you want to high five eachother all over the place, be my guest.

I replied to your reply and pointed out exactly where your flaw lies in your argument. But then again, you don't seem to reply when someone argues validity against your "point"

Edit - I'll be very specific, and amazingly, you didn't seem to respond very much to this.

Originally Posted by James23

No. I told you not to try again, and you did anyway...just terrible.

I agree with most of what you've said, but MMA is relatively new. It is just now becoming a style in itself. If you've got no combat training experience then yes, you can become a pure mixed martial artist. But, other then that, you're a boxer/thai fighter/wrestler/BJJ fighter/Karate stylist turned mixed martial artist. You begin with a base and branch out into other styles. That is how it's worked for 99% of all MMA fighters today. Myself included.

And yes, I agree. A pure anything isn't going to have success at the highest levels. I must have missed where I said they would. Please, point that out to me. I did say that MMA competition tends to favor grapplers. This is undisputable. Grappling gives you the greatest control over a fight. What I will say is that a pure grappler will have a greater chance then a pure striker.

So, sir, you please educate yourself before you try and talk back to someone who has been involved in martial arts since they were 4 years old and has been actively training in Mixed Martial Arts for over 5 years.

Please, take my advice this time, like you should have last time. Do not try again.

This is the flaw in your argument. See the difference yet? It's subtle...and requires thinking, but if you try, it's there.

[Popkins]

I will exit this piece of shit thread by highlighting this section of the moron TS's starting post:

Originally Posted by James23

Now, if they compete in a contest where they can each do their own thing, then it's equal starting ground and Randy won.

Equal starting ground, between a guy with ZERO MMA experience vs one of the most experienced and decorated MMA fighters of all-time.

Good night folks!

[Sloth]

Originally Posted by Popkins

Fail.


MMA is a sport. Randy Couture is an MMA fighter.

Boxing is a sport. James Toney is a boxer.



Randy Couture and James Toney fought in an MMA fight under MMA rules.

100% advantage Couture.



Should Toney and Couture fight in a boxing match now?

Nope. Because then it would be the opposite, it would be 100% advantage Toney. And fights with 100% advantages are completely pointless, they degrade whichever sport they take place in.



From now on, MMA fighters should fight MMA fighters, boxers should fight boxers, and everyone should stay in their element and have fair, competitive fights, no more freakshow mismatches.

I agree with this. You take Mike Modano vs Michael Jordan in a basketball match, advantage Jordan. You make that same match only with a sheet of ice and skates, advantage Modano. These are different sports and people should realize this.

[Popkins]

Originally Posted by Sloth

I agree with this. You take Mike Modano vs Michael Jordan in a basketball match, advantage Jordan. You make that same match only with a sheet of ice and skates, advantage Modano. These are different sports and people should realize this.

Exactly.

MMA utilized aspects of different disciplines, but those aspects are adapted into an MMA framework.

Thus, MMA is a separate and individual discipline in itself now.

The TS does not understand this at all.

[Beebs]

Toney wasn't in a grappling match, he lost because he wasn't able to utilize his boxing; not because of rules, but because of lack of skill.

Couture would be unable to use his skills in a boxing match because of rules, not lack of skills.

If Randy tech'd him in a wrestling match or subbed him in a grappling match, then boxing would be a fair trade.

A fair trade now would be something like San Shou or Shoot boxing, where both give a little.