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Old 11-02-2007, 01:48 PM   #46
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Default Re: Classic Forum Opinions...

Looks like I am the only one on this thread who made a detailed prediction and named the winner with any certainty? Sizzle made another detailed prediction, but wasn't confident enough to name a winner, leaving himself a loophole for escape.
Nobody else dares to take responsibility for making a detailed prediction of a 50-50 fight that is actually going to happen, to prove their historical matchups predictions are real thing, and not spun out of thin air?
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Old 11-02-2007, 01:51 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Looks like I am the only one on this thread who made a detailed prediction and named the winner with any certainty? Sizzle made another detailed prediction, but wasn't confident enough to name a winner, leaving himself a loophole for escape.
Nobody else dares to take responsibility for making a detailed prediction of a 50-50 fight that is actually going to happen, to prove their historical matchups predictions are real thing, and not spun out of thin air?

Check posts 22, 25 and 27. If you have any questions, i'll be happy to answer them.
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Old 11-02-2007, 02:00 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Looks like I am the only one on this thread who made a detailed prediction and named the winner with any certainty? Sizzle made another detailed prediction, but wasn't confident enough to name a winner, leaving himself a loophole for escape.
Nobody else dares to take responsibility for making a detailed prediction of a 50-50 fight that is actually going to happen, to prove their historical matchups predictions are real thing, and not spun out of thin air?
I have predicted Calzaghe to win barring hand injury. While there is a loophole there it is a verry specific one.
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Old 11-02-2007, 02:03 PM   #49
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Default Re: Classic Forum Opinions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Looks like I am the only one on this thread who made a detailed prediction and named the winner with any certainty? Sizzle made another detailed prediction, but wasn't confident enough to name a winner, leaving himself a loophole for escape.
Nobody else dares to take responsibility for making a detailed prediction of a 50-50 fight that is actually going to happen, to prove their historical matchups predictions are real thing, and not spun out of thin air?
I am belatedly going with Kessler, as my Vcash would suggest
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Old 11-02-2007, 02:26 PM   #50
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Posts 22, 25, 27 operate with very vague and general terms. Too fast, unless you are right about Joe's falling off, slightly better fighter, quick enough, not smart enough. This is not a detailed prediction per se. One needs to point out what one and the other fighter will be trying to do, why one or both won't be successful at what they do, and how they gonna change their tactics accordingly.

Predicting a result means little. You have to give detailed prediction. Anyone can put their money on black/white/zero, but why don't you try to guess the number the ball is going to stop at?

This is also a good chance to prove one's qualification even for those who haven't seen enough of one or both fighters, as I have doubts they have better knowledge about fighters of the past, and yet all the time make predictions of the winner or virtual matchups of old-timers and the manner how it's going to happen.
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Old 11-02-2007, 02:33 PM   #51
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I have said that Calzaghe will be able to get inside Kessler's jab because of his superior speed.

I've said that Calzaghe may lose early exchanges and some early rounds.

I've said that Joe will find a higher gear and prove himself the superior fighter by taking the majority of the rounds down the back straight.

What other details would you like to hear?
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Old 11-02-2007, 02:47 PM   #52
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Default Re: Classic Forum Opinions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Looks like I am the only one on this thread who made a detailed prediction and named the winner with any certainty? Sizzle made another detailed prediction, but wasn't confident enough to name a winner, leaving himself a loophole for escape.
Nobody else dares to take responsibility for making a detailed prediction of a 50-50 fight that is actually going to happen, to prove their historical matchups predictions are real thing, and not spun out of thin air?
The evidence in ths match-up is such you cannot give a even 60% accurate prediction unless you are inside both camps and picked something up that will determine the fight.

So any neutral looking from outside can only surmise that Calzaghe's experience or Kessler's possible edge in physicality will be the difference.

Calzaghe is more experienced and is fighting at home; Kessler maybe a better physical specimen... So the percentages are slightly in Calzaghe's favour, but not enough for any prediction to be anything other than a hunch.

So to go for Cazaghe by close decision with provisos (hands hold up) seems fair.
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:30 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by McGrain
I have said that Calzaghe will be able to get inside Kessler's jab because of his superior speed.
How often, and how Kessler is going to react to this? I think you mentioned Mundine fight, who has quick feet and hands just as quick as today's Calzaghe. It didn't work.

Quote:
I've said that Calzaghe may lose early exchanges and some early rounds.
Do you want to say that Kessler is better at slugging it out at Calzaghe's best range (where he will be coming to according to you)?

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I've said that Joe will find a higher gear and prove himself the superior fighter by taking the majority of the rounds down the back straight.
What is a higher gear?
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:32 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by TBooze
The evidence in ths match-up is such you cannot give a even 60% accurate prediction unless you are inside both camps and picked something up that will determine the fight.
You want to say that all predictions in virtual matchup threads on this forum are BS then?
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:40 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Senya13
How often, and how Kessler is going to react to this? I think you mentioned Mundine fight, who has quick feet and hands just as quick as today's Calzaghe. It didn't work.
I've seen Kessler fight and I don't expect surprises. The man does what he does well, but he's unlikely to veer from the norm in these cirumstances, and if he does and wins, it will certainly be an impressive and special win. I didn't mention the Mundine fight, no.

Calzaghe understands angles, focus, leans far better than a fighter like Mundine ever would though.


Quote:
Do you want to say that Kessler is better at slugging it out at Calzaghe's best range (where he will be coming to according to you)?
No. I want to say that Calzaghe will not dominate the fight early.


Quote:
What is a higher gear?
Taking more risks than is normal and (usually) escaping the consequences. Finding ways, based upon experience and natural ability, to exploit weaknesses perceived in the enemy during the fight. Basically all those things that come with experience and a slightly higher quality than the opponent which often (but not always) has to be pressed upon by a challanging opponent/set of circumstances before it can be revealed.
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:51 PM   #56
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You want to say today's Calzaghe is so good and such a master of nullifying a jab, that Kessler's jab won't be an issue at all?
I don't know what fights of Calzaghe and Mundine you've seen to say Calzaghe "leans" far better, ie has a better upper body movement than Mundine. From watching their fights, I think it's obvious it's the other way around. As for angles, Calzaghe uses footwork for angles better than Mundine, but for angles of attack I'd again say Mundine's are more unpredictable.

You said "may lose early exchanges", how exactly is this connected with "won't dominate"?

Taking risks is a vague thing, that doesn't explain how he's gonna be solving the task of getting to mid or close range past Kessler's jab and neutralize Kessler's footwork.
Calzaghe doesn't have experience vs. somebody with such jab, how is it going to help him if he faced nobody even close to Kessler's style? Besides, there were hundreds or thousands of examples, when experience didn't help when two great fighters met. Why would it be an issue here?
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:52 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
You want to say that all predictions in virtual matchup threads on this forum are BS then?
It is very unlikely that we ever see a prime Robinson fight a prime Leonard etc...

So all you can do it hypothesis on an outcome.

The same goes Calzaghe/Kessler until 1:30 Sunday morning
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:57 PM   #58
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Some hypothesis may have a higher probability than others. Some may even have much higher than 50%, and thus can be used for prediction. The point is, if a person can't analyze and make a prediction of a match between two well-known fighters, then, perhaps, any of their predictions of virtual matchups are meaningless, as they obviously are lacking the skills to make such predictions?
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Old 11-02-2007, 04:04 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
You want to say today's Calzaghe is so good and such a master of nullifying a jab, that Kessler's jab won't be an issue at all?
I think you're talking to me...

No. Where are you getting that from? I've said he will win rounds, now which way are you imagining he would win rounds if not with his jab? I don't agree he has the third best jab in the history of the sport, but it's good non the less.

Quote:
I don't know what fights of Calzaghe and Mundine you've seen to say Calzaghe "leans" far better, ie has a better upper body movement than Mundine. From watching their fights, I think it's obvious it's the other way around. As for angles, Calzaghe uses footwork for angles better than Mundine, but for angles of attack I'd again say Mundine's are more unpredictable.
No. Calzaghe is good at dipursing his weight in such a way as to punch, and to prevent clean punching by an opponent.

Quote:
You said "may lose early exchanges", how exactly is this connected with "won't dominate"?
I'm finding it surprising that you are having so much difficulty decoding these relatively simple phrases. If you are not being facetious and really are having difficulty with the term "may lose early exchanges", i'm afraid i'm just going to have to leave you to your agony...

Quote:
Taking risks is a vague thing, that doesn't explain how he's gonna be solving the task of getting to mid or close range past Kessler's jab and neutralize Kessler's footwork.
Taking riskds was a very small part of my surmise explaining what I thought was another pretty straight forward term. Sorry if you find it vague even in conjunction with the rest of that final paragraph of my post - again, i'll have to leave you to puzzle it out alone i'm afraid.


Quote:
Calzaghe doesn't have experience vs. somebody with such jab, how is it going to help him if he faced nobody even close to Kessler's style?

Again, I feel you are being argumentative for the sake of it. You know the benefit of experience in a difficult fight.


Quote:
Besides, there were hundreds or thousands of examples, when experience didn't help when two great fighters met. Why would it be an issue here?
There are also many examples of fights where it has helped. Certainly it is a factor, it is just a case of if it is insignificant, significant, or overwhelmingly significant.

But to answer your rather strange question - if two fighters are evenly matched aside from experience, the more experienced fighter will win. This is why it may prove to be significnat. Becase it is significant.

You seem to be more interested in semantics and linguistic than fighting - i guess i'll leave you to it.
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Old 11-02-2007, 04:09 PM   #60
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Default Re: Classic Forum Opinions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Some hypothesis may have a higher probability than others. Some may even have much higher than 50%, and thus can be used for prediction. The point is, if a person can't analyze and make a prediction of a match between two well-known fighters, then, perhaps, any of their predictions of virtual matchups are meaningless, as they obviously are lacking the skills to make such predictions?
The beauty of an Hypothesis is you can argue anything. I could say a Chuck Gardner would beat Frank Bruno nine times out of ten, because he was good enough to beat Jimmy Young and Mike Tyson...

But the strength of that argument is flawed by the fact that Young was years past his best when he lost to Gardner; Gardner did beat Mike Tyson, but it was perhaps not one you are thinking of and not least because Bruno beat Gardner in a minute in their one meeting.

My Hypothesis is not wrong, there would be a chance no matter how small Gardner could of won the next nine fights with Bruno, but it would be extremely unlikely.
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