Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by Liechhardt

He isn't top 10 in any weight except 130. So all time great???

Depends what your definition is.

Mine is someone I think could be great in the majority of eras.

[Addie]

People actually scored the first Juarez-MAB fight in favor of Rocky? Really?

[Cobra33]

I actually thought MAB beat JMM in that bout.

[Popkins]

I'd feel a lot more comfortable calling Marquez an ATG if he had one single convincing, clear, decisive official win on his record over a prime/near-prime HOF-class fighter. But ultimately if pushed, I'd say his performance the other night puts him over the top into the ATG category. This was a special performance from a 38 year old former featherweight.

[jaffay]

YES

All time great resume and all time great skills

[PowerPuncher]

More talk of the greatness of Juan Manuel Marquez is certainly in order

[Flea Man]

He's 'roiding his tits off.

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

He's 'roiding his tits off.

It should be mandatory for anyone coming up in weight, it makes some shit match ups good.

Monzon-Roided Napoles, Hopkins-Roided Delahoya, Louis-Roided Conn

Who wins and how?

[Flea Man]

Well....it was Monzon that fleed the post fight drugs test against Napoles

[sweet_scientist]

Nice bump. Some good discussion here.

[prime]

This is a re-post because I can't find the original thread entitled "Thoughts on the Pacquiao/Marquaz fight":

Mike Tyson has recently tweeted: "The strong will always overpower the weak; the smart will always overpower the strong."

Yes, Márquez was bigger. But Pacquiao became a household name the planet over by destroying bigger men.

Márquez delivered a master class in the Sweet Science: neutralizing boxing's biggest left cross using anticipation and distance, avoiding annihilation from hydrogen bombs by ducking and counterpunching, and cherishing the right hand as the champion's authority, infusing it with wonderful versatility and thus making it the game changer on a special night for boxing.

Pacquiao came to war. He has been boxing's biggest name in this awesome 21st century, which has seen it nearly all. He made the sport riveting, compelling, pushing the limits of the impossible in conquering 10 world titles in 8 different weight classes. At his peak, his name was routinely mentioned alongside those of Ali, Duran and the Sugar Man.

Of his opponents, Márquez had become the Pac Man's Joe Frazier, his Moby Dick, his Everest, over 36 searing rounds.

In Superfight 4, Manny was venomous, deploying his trademark shredder offense of speed and cluster bombs, his optimism and composure, all the qualities were there. And his opponent knew it, resorting to tentativeness akin to survival mode.

But the aging fighter was thinking, not panicking. Fueled by a lifetime longing for the recognition due his greatness, he had come to his final showdown with several secret weapons, all in the right hand.

In Round 3, it found its mark in the form of a long, wide right hook which, in a second, placed the battle on a whole, new path: the Pac Man had been flung to the canvas, and, as I recall his dazed look on his stool at round's end, in hindsight it can be said it was the first terrible nail in the coffin.

The Pac Man came back, gobbling points, slashing his 39-year-old foe, flooring him, bloodying him, for split-seconds diminishing him to slow-motion, faltering legs, a proud, stubborn man with the bruised, red-mask look of imminent defeat.

But the Mexican warrior stayed calm. He knew he had come to have to go through hell to reach his beloved goal. He had paid, no, enjoyed the price of success, and, suddenly, without warning, came payback time.

The grueling hours, years, decades of solitary work were suddenly embodied in a perfectly-timed, tight right hand, that shot out to meet an onrushing, furious Pacquiao. Shockingly, unbelievably, the iconic giant killer stopped cold and crashed forward, never to respond to the 10-count dramatically tolled over his corpse-like form.

Boxing won tonight, in a clash reminiscent of the fabled wars of yore.

And the better of the two men won tonight, judges and yak be damned!

[McGrain]

He's verging dangerously close to a pass based upon his longevity. Beating Pacquiao at his age is no joke.

[dinovelvet]

Originally Posted by McGrain

He's verging dangerously close to a pass based upon his longevity. Beating Pacquiao at his age is no joke.

Nobody gets a free pass at ATG great status. The meaning of the term is lost around here. And it took him 4 fights and over 40 rounds to do it.

[orriray59]

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

Nobody gets a free pass at ATG great status. The meaning of the term is lost around here. And it took him 4 fights and over 40 rounds to do it.

What are you talking about? He just sensationally stopped a top-tier ATG after four classic fights (yeah, I know there'll be suspicions about PED usage).

I don't know if it's enough to merit ATG status, but he's had a long career and has bested plenty of good fighters. The likes of Barrera, Diaz, Casamayor, Pacquiao, Katsidis, Juarez, Salido, etc. Along with great longevity and a willingness to prove himself against the very best time and time again, I suppose you could say he's on his way there.

If he fought and defeated a guy like Garcia or Bradley in his next fight I'd have no qualms with considering him a great.
EDIT: Just seen your edit. I felt he clearly outboxed Pacquiao in their third fight, and had him a close winner in their second bout. Had Pacquiao the victor in their first battle, but again, could just as easily see it for Marquez.

[McGrain]

I didn't say "free pass" I said pass. BASED upon something, namely his longevity. Look:

Originally Posted by McGrain

He's verging dangerously close to a pass based upon his longevity. Beating Pacquiao at his age is no joke.

And I didn't say "had" I said "verging dangerously close"

If he's still knocking top men off at 41, or so.