Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

[WhataRock]

Originally Posted by MrWonderful

Marquez beat him way easier.

Reckon you are getting mixed up their champion...or just havent seen the fights in question.

[Addie]

Originally Posted by WhataRock

Reckon you are getting mixed up their champion...or just havent seen the fights in question.

Look at my signature. That speaks volumes for his supposed credibility. He's a clown.

[divac]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

You may have a point most of the criticism of JMM is pretty unfair, I'm personally a fan of both, more so of MAB who I rate a little higher, but both have been considered the MAN in 3 weight classes, which is special. How do you rate the 3 Mexicans Divac? I'd go 1. MAB 2. JMM 3. Morales

Proof that Addie has an agenda against Marquez in putting up this thread is the debate on this here thread whether the Manuel Medina that Marquez fought was shot or not........

......notice how Addie is'nt entering into this discussion?

It would'nt suit his agenda to do so.

Addie prefers to just stay silent on the matter of whether Medina was shot or not, because he does'nt want to have to justify that indeed, the Medina that was destroyed by Marquez was a quality win.


Medina was an exellent fighter, but one that lost to those that were grade A or close to that.

If you look at Medina's resume prior to Marquez beating him.....whether he won or lost, went the distance or got KO'd, he gave a decent account of himself and was competitive in just about if not every fight he was ever in.
Marquez was actually the first fighter to thoroughly destroy Medina every wish way.......a fight where the class in Marquez was so high, Medina could not compete with.

Thats not Medina at his very best, but certainly that Medina still was being competitive with World Champions.


Power Puncher......

This is how I rate the three Mexicans.......

1 Marquez

2 Morales

3 MAB


All are great fighters.
Marquez imo the better rounded fighter, he can do more things than the other two.......

MAB certainly belongs in the discussion, but I rate him behind the other two because I think he has more weaknesses than the other two......
MAB was the only one of the three to actually get knocked out twice while in his prime or very near it.

......and Addie really hates when I say it. I wish he would'nt......but I feel that although he is a good boxer, his boxing skill gets overrated on boards like this.

Addie always gives me grief that I point out that MAB's right hand is weaker than the other two, Marquez and Morales, and thus why MAB's use of the right hand is inconsistent and comes into play when he has to deal with quality fighters like Junior Jones and Manny Pacquiao.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

In my mind yes, ATG.....

[ricardinho]

Originally Posted by divac

Proof that Addie has an agenda against Marquez in putting up this thread is the debate on this here thread whether the Manuel Medina that Marquez fought was shot or not........

......notice how Addie is'nt entering into this discussion?

It would'nt suit his agenda to do so.

Addie prefers to just stay silent on the matter of whether Medina was shot or not, because he does'nt want to have to justify that indeed, the Medina that was destroyed by Marquez was a quality win.


Medina was an exellent fighter, but one that lost to those that were grade A or close to that.

If you look at Medina's resume prior to Marquez beating him.....whether he won or lost, went the distance or got KO'd, he gave a decent account of himself and was competitive in just about if not every fight he was ever in.
Marquez was actually the first fighter to thoroughly destroy Medina every wish way.......a fight where the class in Marquez was so high, Medina could not compete with.

Thats not Medina at his very best, but certainly that Medina still was being competitive with World Champions.


Power Puncher......

This is how I rate the three Mexicans.......

1 Marquez

2 Morales

3 MAB


All are great fighters.
Marquez imo the better rounded fighter, he can do more things than the other two.......

MAB certainly belongs in the discussion, but I rate him behind the other two because I think he has more weaknesses than the other two......
MAB was the only one of the three to actually get knocked out twice while in his prime or very near it.

......and Addie really hates when I say it. I wish he would'nt......but I feel that although he is a good boxer, his boxing skill gets overrated on boards like this.

Addie always gives me grief that I point out that MAB's right hand is weaker than the other two, Marquez and Morales, and thus why MAB's use of the right hand is inconsistent and comes into play when he has to deal with quality fighters like Junior Jones and Manny Pacquiao.

You give Medina a very fair assessment in fact Medina had fought Tapia to a close decision right before fighting Marquez.

[la-califa]

His true test would have been to challenge Barrera & Morales, while they were battling eachother in thier prime's. To be an considered an ATG. you have to battle a Prime ATG.

[Addie]

Originally Posted by divac

Proof that Addie has an agenda against Marquez in putting up this thread is the debate on this here thread whether the Manuel Medina that Marquez fought was shot or not........

......notice how Addie is'nt entering into this discussion?

It would'nt suit his agenda to do so.

Addie prefers to just stay silent on the matter of whether Medina was shot or not, because he does'nt want to have to justify that indeed, the Medina that was destroyed by Marquez was a quality win.


Medina was an exellent fighter, but one that lost to those that were grade A or close to that.

If you look at Medina's resume prior to Marquez beating him.....whether he won or lost, went the distance or got KO'd, he gave a decent account of himself and was competitive in just about if not every fight he was ever in.
Marquez was actually the first fighter to thoroughly destroy Medina every wish way.......a fight where the class in Marquez was so high, Medina could not compete with.

Thats not Medina at his very best, but certainly that Medina still was being competitive with World Champions.


Power Puncher......

This is how I rate the three Mexicans.......

1 Marquez

2 Morales

3 MAB


All are great fighters.
Marquez imo the better rounded fighter, he can do more things than the other two.......

MAB certainly belongs in the discussion, but I rate him behind the other two because I think he has more weaknesses than the other two......
MAB was the only one of the three to actually get knocked out twice while in his prime or very near it.

......and Addie really hates when I say it. I wish he would'nt......but I feel that although he is a good boxer, his boxing skill gets overrated on boards like this.

Addie always gives me grief that I point out that MAB's right hand is weaker than the other two, Marquez and Morales, and thus why MAB's use of the right hand is inconsistent and comes into play when he has to deal with quality fighters like Junior Jones and Manny Pacquiao.

I'll response to this tomorrow...just got back from a piss up so I'm understandably...well...pissed.

You mentioned me an awful lot, Divac. I love you, too.

[Addie]

Originally Posted by la-califa

His true test would have been to challenge Barrera & Morales, while they were battling eachother in thier prime's. To be an considered an ATG. you have to battle a Prime ATG.

Nice, objective poster...not at all deterred by personal bias. Good man.

[ricardinho]

I think that Marquez has achieved a lot in the ring but the truth is neither Morales nor Barrera wanted to fight him. Neither of them called him out and they both felt comfortable with him in the shadows.

I think that Marquez is worthy of consideration as a great for some of the reasons Ricardo Lopez is considered a great: intelligence, dominance, and skill.

[divac]

Originally Posted by ricardinho

I think that Marquez has achieved a lot in the ring but the truth is neither Morales nor Barrera wanted to fight him. Neither of them called him out and they both felt comfortable with him in the shadows.

I think that Marquez is worthy of consideration as a great for some of the reasons Ricardo Lopez is considered a great: intelligence, dominance, and skill.

When you look at the resumes, either one of them MAB or Morales had the opportunity to lock horns with Marquez after they had fought eachother, but each would fight 5 to 6 2nd tier type contenders, and then instead of takiing on a different top tier fighter, they'd go back to fight eachother again.

While Naseem Hamed was busy ducking Marquez, MAB and Morales were busy and very comfortable making a big fight only with eachother.

Its fascinating that between fighting eachother 3 times, I never heard either MAB or Morales mention the existence of Marquez.

It is only until GBP publicly stated to make a Marquez vs MAB elimination fight with the winner having the rights to fight Pacquiao, that MAB felt the pressure to have to take that fight with Marquez to justify a Pacquiao fight.
It turned out that MAB had a hissy fit with GBP head Richard Shaefer after clearly losing to Marquez, that in order to make MAB happy, they granted him (the loser vs Marquez) first crack at Pacquiao.


......the same with Morales, its not until now where he does'nt have many options that he's now calling on a Marquez fight.

[divac]

Originally Posted by Addie

I'll response to this tomorrow...just got back from a piss up so I'm understandably...well...pissed.

You mentioned me an awful lot, Divac. I love you, too.

Why would'nt I mention you?
You are the thread starter afterall......

[Addie]

Originally Posted by divac

Why would'nt I mention you?
You are the thread starter afterall......

Indeed, but the thread only exists to ask the Classic if they believe Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG or not. You think I'm on his case all the time, and that I resent him because of how great he has become in his own right and therefore inevitably being compared with the likes of Barrera, but that's not it at all. I cheered him on in his two biggest fights with Manny Pacquiao, and I've acknowledged that in the event he gets one big win at 140lbs, then I'd have no quarrels with ranking him alongside his Mexican contemporaries. Greatness is attainable for him, he just needs one big win. That's all.

[Addie]

Originally Posted by ricardinho

I think that Marquez is worthy of consideration as a great for some of the reasons Ricardo Lopez is considered a great: intelligence, dominance, and skill.

Agreed. He's on the same level as a Ricardo Lopez...who I don't rank that highly, either.

[Pachilles]

Originally Posted by Addie

Agreed. He's on the same level as a Ricardo Lopez.

make your mind up Addie. You were just saying he's not an ATG and now you've got him top 40 P4P ATG

[Addie]

Originally Posted by Pachilles

make your mind up Addie. You were just saying he's not an ATG and now you've got him top 40 P4P ATG

Lopez wouldn't make my top 80.