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Old 09-20-2010, 04:45 PM   #1
Vysotsky
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Default If Hopkins fought in 87-95 he would be a afterthought when talked about

This is to illustrate the absudity of the other thread saying that Hopkins would destroy Hagler etc. Had Hopkins been at the top of the MW division between 1987-1995 he certianly wouldn't be top 3, perhaps not even top 5 from that era. It was a very talent rich era and we would have recieved a much more honest assessment of Hopkins skill level which is insanely inflated . People saying he's an ATG and comparing him other ATG MW's is crazyness in my opinion.

Jones, Toney, Mcclellan, Nunn all own him

Mcclallum, Benn beating him is likely

Jackson, Eubank, Collins, Kalambay, Watson - would favour Hopkins but a loss is certianly not out of the question

who else am i forgetting?

Point is that had Hopkins come along 5 years earlier (the length of his prison time ironically) he would maybe be the 5th best from that era. The way some Americans rate him now a days blows my mind.
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Old 09-20-2010, 04:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: If Hopkins Fought in 87-95 He Would Be A Afterthought When Talked About

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Originally Posted by Vysotsky View Post
This is to illustrate the absudity of the other thread saying that Hopkins would destroy Hagler etc. Had Hopkins been at the top of the MW division between 1987-1995 he certianly wouldn't be top 3, perhaps not even top 5 from that era. It was a very talent rich era and we would have recieved a much more honest assessment of Hopkins skill level which is insanely inflated . People saying he's an ATG and comparing him other ATG MW's is crazyness in my opinion.

Jones, Toney, Mcclellan, Nunn all own him

Mcclallum, Benn beating him is likely

Jackson, Eubank, Collins, Kalambay, Watson - would favour Hopkins but a loss is certianly not out of the question

who else am i forgetting?

Point is that had Hopkins come along 5 years earlier (the length of his prison time ironically) he would maybe be the 5th best from that era. The way some Americans rate him now a days blows my mind.


Hopkins would be the water boy.
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Old 09-20-2010, 04:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: If Hopkins Fought in 87-95 He Would Be A Afterthought When Talked About

Hopkins is a nightmare for anyone to fight, and he does have some real woeful performances, especially when it isn't going his way. Still, I think he'd be a real frontrunner in whatever era he fought in. Benn beating him? Come on, man. I mean, I love Benn, but he's got ****ing no chance of getting a win over B-Hop.
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Old 09-20-2010, 04:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: If Hopkins fought in 87-95 he would be a afterthought when talked about

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Hopkins is a nightmare for anyone to fight, and he does have some real woeful performances, especially when it isn't going his way. Still, I think he'd be a real frontrunner in whatever era he fought in. Benn beating him? Come on, man. I mean, I love Benn, but he's got ****ing no chance of getting a win over B-Hop.
Someone as aggressive, relentless, busy, and hard hitting as Benn would certianly have a chance at overwhelming Hopkins. What Taylor did was a down syndrome version of what Benn would be capable of.
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Old 09-20-2010, 05:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: If Hopkins fought in 87-95 he would be a afterthought when talked about

i think the old hopkins would be more dangerous in this era. less than devastating punching power but alot better craft than when he was younger and half these gus like to steam in.

but yeah i think a younger b-hop gets spanked by most
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Old 09-20-2010, 05:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: If Hopkins fought in 87-95 he would be a afterthought when talked about

Jones yes, toney debatable, but very interesting a fight i wudve luved 2 seen, but none of the rest r in hopkins league in terms of skill and ring smarts. Hopkins wud outbox every other name mentioned. Toney and jones r the onloy others with the skill set 2 bother him.
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: If Hopkins fought in 87-95 he would be a afterthought when talked about

i dont know how theyd meet up h2h but bhop is no easy task for anybody
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:21 PM   #8
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Default Re: If Hopkins fought in 87-95 he would be a afterthought when talked about

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Originally Posted by Vysotsky View Post
This is to illustrate the absudity of the other thread saying that Hopkins would destroy Hagler etc. Had Hopkins been at the top of the MW division between 1987-1995 he certianly wouldn't be top 3, perhaps not even top 5 from that era. It was a very talent rich era and we would have recieved a much more honest assessment of Hopkins skill level which is insanely inflated . People saying he's an ATG and comparing him other ATG MW's is crazyness in my opinion.

Jones, Toney, Mcclellan, Nunn all own him

Mcclallum, Benn beating him is likely

Jackson, Eubank, Collins, Kalambay, Watson - would favour Hopkins but a loss is certianly not out of the question

who else am i forgetting?

Point is that had Hopkins come along 5 years earlier (the length of his prison time ironically) he would maybe be the 5th best from that era. The way some Americans rate him now a days blows my mind.
hold on. shut the fk up for a second and hear me out

first off, you put kalambay in that bottom group. you don't know dick about kalambay. put him up there with Toney

benn got whooped by a lesser technician in Watson, how is he gonna deal with Hopkins?

collins and jackson were massively flawed fighters. eubank likewise, despite being a solid technician.

Rjj was obviously better than hopkins

mccallum, toney, and kalambay are on the same level as hopkins no doubt. it's too bad you can't recognize that
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:25 PM   #9
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Default Re: If Hopkins fought in 87-95 he would be a afterthought when talked about

I dont think that James Toney could own Hopkins, not in the slightest. It would be competetive but nobody would be owning anyone that night, and if anything id be tipping Hopkins ring IQ to figure Toney out and do what it takes to win the fight prime for prime.
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: If Hopkins fought in 87-95 he would be a afterthought when talked about

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I dont think that James Toney could own Hopkins, not in the slightest. It would be competetive but nobody would be owning anyone that night, and if anything id be tipping Hopkins ring IQ to figure Toney out and do what it takes to win the fight prime for prime.
id have to agree with this
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:39 PM   #11
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Default Re: If Hopkins fought in 87-95 he would be a afterthought when talked about

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Jones yes, toney debatable, but very interesting a fight i wudve luved 2 seen, but none of the rest r in hopkins league in terms of skill and ring smarts. Hopkins wud outbox every other name mentioned. Toney and jones r the onloy others with the skill set 2 bother him.
Toney, Mccallum, Nunn, Mclellan (although he rarely used it) are all just as skillful ,more so imo, than Hopkins. The way Hopkins gets labelled "crafty" "old school" etc is over done. Anybody who says that Hopkins skill set, especially defense, is on par with Toney's i can't take serious.

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hold on. shut the fk up for a second and hear me out

first off, you put kalambay in that bottom group. you don't know dick about kalambay. put him up there with Toney

benn got whooped by a lesser technician in Watson, how is he gonna deal with Hopkins?

collins and jackson were massively flawed fighters. eubank likewise, despite being a solid technician.

Rjj was obviously better than hopkins

mccallum, toney, and kalambay are on the same level as hopkins no doubt. it's too bad you can't recognize that
Admittedly i haven't seen much of Kalambay and Watson, that's why Kalambay is in that third tier.

The reason i said Benn is because, while being nowhere near as skillfull, he has a style that could bother Hopkins. I could see a guy like Benn or Collins being able to do a much better job than Taylor and beating him in a similar fashion.

Mccallum is certianly in the top bracket skill wise.

Last edited by Vysotsky; 10-26-2010 at 05:14 AM.
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:20 AM   #12
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Default Re: If Hopkins fought in 87-95 he would be a afterthought when talked about

Ya i said it. Hopkins is a legend in his own mind and has somehow jedi mind tricked a large portion of the public, with HBO's help, into thinking the same by beating some WW's, a Tarver coming down from 220lbs, and a Bronchitis suffering MW in Pavlik.
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:25 AM   #13
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Default Re: If Hopkins fought in 87-95 he would be a afterthought when talked about

Benn vs Hopkins would be one scrappy fight! But Hopkins was better, Benn had limited stamina and against another technically proficient fighter (Watson) he got gassed so badly he got knocked out by a jab.

Hopkins reigned in an abnormally weak era, that much is clear. I still maintain he never really did improve overall as a fighter after the RJJ fight - that fight proving that he belonged in any era as a top middleweight.
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:28 AM   #14
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Default Re: If Hopkins fought in 87-95 he would be a afterthought when talked about

I'm not a huge BHop fan by any means, but I do have a great respect for his ability and craft.

I don't think he was as naturally gifted as some of these guys mentioned but he worked hard and over time developed a way of fighting that worked for him, experience and supreme fitness aswell as his craftiness are his greatest attributes for me, which is why we see wins like the Pavlik one recently and if he pulls it off perhaps Pascal too...

BHop peaked later than all of those guys, past few years he's been scoring big wins and making elite level fighters look bad where the others like stars have faded considerably. It's a gift and a curse for Hop that his career overlapped, had he got to fight a few more of those 90s fights with the style he has now, he would of scored more wins and be held in higher regard but as I said before, the style only came with time and experience.

Props to Bernard Hopkins for all his hard work and dedication to the sport, you might not like what he says sometimes but he lives to fight and is the epitome of how a top level boxer should act in regards to training and respect of his sport.
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:35 AM   #15
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Default Re: If Hopkins fought in 87-95 he would be a afterthought when talked about

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I'm not a huge BHop fan by any means, but I do have a great respect for his ability and craft.

I don't think he was as naturally gifted as some of these guys mentioned but he worked hard and over time developed a way of fighting that worked for him, experience and supreme fitness aswell as his craftiness are his greatest attributes for me, which is why we see wins like the Pavlik one recently and if he pulls it off perhaps Pascal too...

BHop peaked later than all of those guys, past few years he's been scoring big wins and making elite level fighters look bad where the others like stars have faded considerably. It's a gift and a curse for Hop that his career overlapped, had he got to fight a few more of those 90s fights with the style he has now, he would of scored more wins and be held in higher regard but as I said before, the style only came with time and experience.

Props to Bernard Hopkins for all his hard work and dedication to the sport, you might not like what he says sometimes but he lives to fight and is the epitome of how a top level boxer should act in regards to training and respect of his sport.
I agree with all of what you said there except about him respecting the sport. He does in terms of it's history and the craft but he is far from what i'd call an honorable fighter. He's dirty, ugly, and put on some disgraceful antics. Jones Hopkins II being about as pitiful and pathetic as the sport can possibly get.
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