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Old 10-19-2010, 07:46 PM   #421
bodhi
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I think a rebel has to show some rebellion? I don't think not doing something really easy really qualifies...more teen anxt?

Still, we both know it was really about finding a way to put Fitz at #1. Very cunning.
Yeah, Im a mastermind.
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:37 AM   #422
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

Guys, I have a lot of transcribing I need to do tomorrow so there is no way I can get to this.

Pushing the deadline back a week to October 27.

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Old 10-21-2010, 02:10 AM   #423
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

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Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
After all that you come busting my balls when I say I don't feel the guys a top 5 guy? And you have frigging Muhammad Ali at #5? Amazing.
I misread your post, I guess. Thought you said Fitz should be inside the top 20. I think he's a lock for top 10 either way. Whats wrong with putting Ali in the top 5? 2 dominant decades of HW boxing, H2H nightmare for most fighters in history, incredible athlete, and culturally the most relevant modern boxer to lace em up.
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Old 10-21-2010, 03:20 AM   #424
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

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Originally Posted by Swarmer View Post
I misread your post, I guess. Thought you said Fitz should be inside the top 20. I think he's a lock for top 10 either way. Whats wrong with putting Ali in the top 5? 2 dominant decades of HW boxing, H2H nightmare for most fighters in history, incredible athlete, and culturally the most relevant modern boxer to lace em up.
What has this to do with a ranking?
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Old 10-21-2010, 10:01 AM   #425
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 20)

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Originally Posted by bodhi View Post
Adepted to the rules of the thread, meaning I take the top2/1/5/2 from the eras and put them down in the order they came along:

1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Sam Langford
3. Harry Greb
4. Mickey Walker
5. Henry Armstrong
6. Ray Robinson
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Roberto Duran
9. Ray Leonard
0. Pernell Whitaker
I like that list (although not the order really)

I always found it funny how people (correctly) say that you must judge at fighter by his era, and not compare eras, as modern fighters have the advantage of all the previous knowledge and natural improvement (of skills) that comes with evolution (plus maybe more science). But then when the idea that modern fighters are automatically inferior because of a lack of fights comes along, the idea that you judge by era gets thrown out the window. More than slightly unfair. It just seems to stink of double standards.

However, I do see the point that if a guy proves himself more than another guy it is unfair to rate him lower. However, what defines proving himself? I bet you are measuring that as an absolute term that is consistent throughout the eras. Would it not be better to say someone like Whitaker has proven himself far more than most in his era, possibly the same as a Benny Leonard in relative terms?

Just a thought that if you are going to compare against the fighters era only, then do it for everything maybe??

On a side note, My list contains no modern fighter, but I may now change that.
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Old 10-29-2010, 11:59 AM   #426
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 27)

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Sam Langford
4. Harry Greb
5. Ezzard Charles
6. Roberto Duran
7. Archie Moore
8. Willie Pep
9. Benny Leonard
10. Muhammad Ali
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:52 AM   #427
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 27)

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Originally Posted by Boxing Girl View Post
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Sam Langford
4. Harry Greb
5. Ezzard Charles
6. Roberto Duran
7. Archie Moore
8. Willie Pep
9. Benny Leonard
10. Muhammad Ali
... A public figure with a good P4P list! For what it's worth --Bravo. I'd strongly recommend that you keep reading about Harry Greb because the more you dig, the higher he climbs.
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Old 10-30-2010, 11:41 AM   #428
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 27)

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
... A public figure with a good P4P list! For what it's worth --Bravo.
Don't tell me you're falling for that, Stoney.
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Old 10-30-2010, 11:42 AM   #429
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 27)

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Originally Posted by El Bujia View Post
Don't tell me you're falling for that, Stoney.


Play nice boys.

Anyway, nothing wrong with, ah, taking some healthy influence into consideration when doing your list.
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Old 10-30-2010, 12:06 PM   #430
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 27)

My list has changed since I posted it here anyway.

I know it won't count, but for what it's worth:

01. Henry Armstrong
02. Harry Greb
03. Sugar Ray Robinson
04. Sam Langford
05. Ezzard Charles
06. Bob Fitzsimmons
07. Willie Pep
08. Benny Leonard
09. Mickey Walker
10; Roberto Duran


(11. Archie Moore
12. Joe Gans
13. Muhammad Ali
14. Barney Ross
15. Jimmy McLarnin
16; Joe Louis
17. Charley Burley
18. Terry McGovern
19. Sugar Ray Leonard
20. Tony Canzoneri
21. Barbados Joe Walcott)
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:25 PM   #431
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 27)

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Anyway, nothing wrong with, ah, taking some healthy influence into consideration when doing your list.
At least I'm not the only one who notices.
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Old 10-30-2010, 08:31 PM   #432
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 27)

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
... A public figure with a good P4P list! For what it's worth --Bravo. I'd strongly recommend that you keep reading about Harry Greb because the more you dig, the higher he climbs.
... and maybe at least skim read a bit about Fitzsimmons as well, because the same applies.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:54 PM   #433
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 27)

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Originally Posted by El Bujia View Post
Don't tell me you're falling for that, Stoney.
Nah, it's not that close to mine. I don't rank any fighter whose prime is <1920 and Greb at #4 is far too low.

Anyway, I don't see how Ezzard and Benny can be passed over for guys like, say, Ray Leonard or Marciano on any list worth spit.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:57 PM   #434
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 27)

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Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
... and maybe at least skim read a bit about Fitzsimmons as well, because the same applies.
Ruby's time was just too different from even Loughren's. That screws up the validity of the effort. I've unilaterally redefined the cut off for the "modern era" at 1920. Using gloves just isn't enough. And I'm standing pat.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:01 PM   #435
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Default Re: P4P Top 10 Official Survey (Poll Closes October 27)

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
Nah, it's not that close to mine. I don't rank any fighter whose prime is <1920 and Greb at #4 is far too low.

Anyway, I don't see how Ezzard and Benny can be passed over for guys like, say, Ray Leonard or Marciano on any list worth spit.
It always depends on the criteria.
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