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Old 09-19-2012, 05:59 AM   #91
viru§™
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Default Re: The limits of bodyweight training?

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Originally Posted by Vikaster View Post
my goal hmm
i weight 65kg (not much) and i am 1,80 i want to gain more muscles beacuse
i am a freak pushuper but push ups are good , unfornautely if you train with push ups 2 years you are not gaining bigger muscles, my arms not bigger anymore.you lift 70% of your body and your muscles are not growing up beacuse
u need something more.I do pull ups and you lift 90% or even more of your weight.I dont want to lose my queickness my punches are really fast.
i have read if you do more than 12 pull ups you should add some weights..
i m on my way to reach 50 pull ups ?(with special training program)
is that good? i train with pull ups 2 months and i gained bigger muscles (back muscles, chest size) but my forearm and biceps still the same. just ripped better.

btw:joe frazier etc they did not touch weights. just bodyweight exercises, i like them but i have dillema about adding weights .


waiting for your answer

chris
At what point does extra weight become extra weight? Do you do your pullups with clothes on? Those clothes will add a few pounds to you therefor you're lifting extra weight in the same way as adding a weight plate around your waist. You think this is a bad thing?

Does it become extra weight when it's 2kg, 5kg, 10kg of additional weight? Where's the line you draw?

BTW, Joe Frazier's training has absolutely nothing to do with you.
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:19 AM   #92
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Default Re: The limits of bodyweight training?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikaster View Post
my goal hmm
i weight 65kg (not much) and i am 1,80 i want to gain more muscles beacuse
i am a freak pushuper but push ups are good , unfornautely if you train with push ups 2 years you are not gaining bigger muscles, my arms not bigger anymore.you lift 70% of your body and your muscles are not growing up beacuse
u need something more.I do pull ups and you lift 90% or even more of your weight.I dont want to lose my queickness my punches are really fast.
i have read if you do more than 12 pull ups you should add some weights..
i m on my way to reach 50 pull ups ?(with special training program)
is that good? i train with pull ups 2 months and i gained bigger muscles (back muscles, chest size) but my forearm and biceps still the same. just ripped better.

btw:joe frazier etc they did not touch weights. just bodyweight exercises, i like them but i have dillema about adding weights .


waiting for your answer

chris
Mate, I'd be interested in any info you've got towards this 50 pull-ups target

Have a look at some gymnastics sites for info concerning bodyweight work (I can direct you to a couple of good ones if you PM me). I mix low-level gymnastic work like Front Lever work, handstand pressups, muscle-ups etc and basic compound lifts with barbells/dumbbells (at the moment just heavy deadlifts and clean and presses)depending on how I'm feeling. You can benefit with bodyweight stuff without getting too technical; in fact it can offer a lot, although I'm a fan of weights as well.

I basically combine the two modes, it's just at the moment I'm semi resting from heavy lifting as I'm feeling a bit fried after lots of heavy work during the summer and the bodyweight options are a nice change to mix things up and give my body and mind a rest from the same heavy, heavy drudgery

ETA Stop worrying about weights, mate. For what you're after it'll be much easier to hit your muscle-gaining aims through lifting and eating rather than the gymnastic stuff as the latter will take longer to gain but you'll get there a bit later down the line.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:50 AM   #93
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Default Re: The limits of bodyweight training?

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Old 09-19-2012, 12:04 PM   #94
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Default Re: The limits of bodyweight training?

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Originally Posted by viru§™ View Post
At what point does extra weight become extra weight? Do you do your pullups with clothes on? Those clothes will add a few pounds to you therefor you're lifting extra weight in the same way as adding a weight plate around your waist. You think this is a bad thing?

Does it become extra weight when it's 2kg, 5kg, 10kg of additional weight? Where's the line you draw?

BTW, Joe Frazier's training has absolutely nothing to do with you.

I meant taht its good he did not touch? he was strong as f***
i train with clothes yes, with blouse there is no warm weather in my country .

i will try to reach 50 pull ups without weight. no need to add weight you say so.?
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:25 PM   #95
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Default Re: The limits of bodyweight training?

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Originally Posted by Cut Me Mick View Post
Don't really get this comment? This has nothing to do with it being a weight resistance or body weight exercise, it has more to do with the different energy systems and muscle fibres being used.
A push up involves, core muscles, chest, shoulders, back muscles as stabiliser muscles, even the quads are stabiliser muscles, Biceps/triceps all stabiliser muscles.

Technically it's a much more difficult movement and exercise than a bench press. When you are doing a push up, you are lifting 60% of you're own body weight, but that weight is also working a large numbers of muscle groups.

Its by far more superior to a bench press or any free weight chest/shoulder/core exercise in my opinion.

I personally use push up handles, also body weight exercises improve you're muscle intramuscular coordination more so than free weights in my opinion......"SOME BODYWEIGHT EXERCISERS NOT ALL".

But then again, and such exercise like squats. There is no, body weight exercise that can compete with weighted squats with a Olympic bar, there is none. If you want to build power in strength, this is nothing that compares to weighted squats. With a heavy bar on you're back, you are using 90% of you're muscles in you're body, ether to move the weight or stabilise the body and support the weight on you're back.

At the moment i don't even go the gym, i use a combination of bodyweight exercisers like push up handles, pull ups, and then i do some squats with a barbell and weight plates, might even do some rows! Because pull ups, are a great way to destroy you're shoulders.

"I think they are overrated"........
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:28 PM   #96
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Default Re: The limits of bodyweight training?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikaster View Post
my goal hmm
i weight 65kg (not much) and i am 1,80 i want to gain more muscles beacuse
i am a freak pushuper but push ups are good , unfornautely if you train with push ups 2 years you are not gaining bigger muscles, my arms not bigger anymore.you lift 70% of your body and your muscles are not growing up beacuse
u need something more.I do pull ups and you lift 90% or even more of your weight.I dont want to lose my queickness my punches are really fast.
i have read if you do more than 12 pull ups you should add some weights..
i m on my way to reach 50 pull ups ?(with special training program)
is that good? i train with pull ups 2 months and i gained bigger muscles (back muscles, chest size) but my forearm and biceps still the same. just ripped better.

btw:joe frazier etc they did not touch weights. just bodyweight exercises, i like them but i have dillema about adding weights .


waiting for your answer

chris
Start to do wall assisted hand stand push ups, they require you to support more of your body weight on your arms.

Also dips are another good exercise.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:06 PM   #97
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Default Re: The limits of bodyweight training?

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Originally Posted by weegriffin View Post
Start to do wall assisted hand stand push ups, they require you to support more of your body weight on your arms.

Also dips are another good exercise.

Thanks! i did dips1 year ago.They are good,, thank you for telling me about wall push ups, i will try them. How much weight do we lift when we do dips/ smilar to pull ups? and wall push ups?
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:47 PM   #98
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Default Re: The limits of bodyweight training?

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Originally Posted by Cut Me Mick View Post
Ok, this is a pretty good comment, and i agree with most of it. However this has very little to do with why somebody who can bench 150kg can't do 100 pushups.

For a start, pushing 150kg requires short bursts of strength, which will make you use the fast glycolytic muscle fibres, and the creatine phosphate energy system. Doing 100 pushups will make you use the slow oxidative muscle fibres and the aerobic energy system.

Somebody who pushes 150kg, will struggle to be able to do 100 pushups for the same reason a 100 metre sprinter would struggle to run a marathon. Their bodies have been trained to be optimal and certain things.
You have just answered the question you are asking, slightly.

Plus a bench press, and a push up are different exercises essentially.

Push ups don't always use the slow oxidative muscle fibres, if you are adding more resistance to you're push ups etc....

But in general, push ups don't just use the slow oxidative muscle fibres, if that was the case you would be able to do 1000 push ups straight off with no problem.

Or you would be able to do push ups constantly for 20mins straight, just like you can go on a nice jog for 20mins etc...

Think about it mate.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:36 PM   #99
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Default Re: The limits of bodyweight training?

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Originally Posted by Cut Me Mick View Post
Fast oxidative glycolytic muscle fibres would start to be used after a while, sorry i should have mentioned that.
an exampleeople lift 150kg on a bench and cant do a lot of push ups i prefer to do 100 push ups and lift 100kg than lift 150 and do 30 push ups.

Last edited by Vikaster; 09-19-2012 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:09 PM   #100
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Default Re: The limits of bodyweight training?

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What?
no no! nothin, nevermind
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:20 PM   #101
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Default Re: The limits of bodyweight training?

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Originally Posted by Vikaster View Post
I meant taht its good he did not touch? he was strong as f***
i train with clothes yes, with blouse there is no warm weather in my country .

i will try to reach 50 pull ups without weight. no need to add weight you say so.?
How you've come to this conclusion from my post I don't know.
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:29 PM   #102
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Default Re: The limits of bodyweight training?

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Originally Posted by viru§™ View Post
How you've come to this conclusion from my post I don't know.
Forget it.did you ever pull up with weight on? extra 5 pounds for example.
what you think about adding weights after 3 months of pull ups.


Push ups are an goid exercise to develop a limited amount of upper body muscle, but as far as endurance goes, the sky is the limit. Push ups build muscle, there is no doubt about it. the amount of muscle will be severely limited unless you will add some weiht Adding weight is the only way to build muscle. More push ups will not , that will only build endurance hm?
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:16 PM   #103
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Default Re: The limits of bodyweight training?

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Originally Posted by Vikaster View Post
Forget it.did you ever pull up with weight on? extra 5 pounds for example.
what you think about adding weights after 3 months of pull ups.


Push ups are an goid exercise to develop a limited amount of upper body muscle, but as far as endurance goes, the sky is the limit. Push ups build muscle, there is no doubt about it. the amount of muscle will be severely limited unless you will add some weiht Adding weight is the only way to build muscle. More push ups will not , that will only build endurance hm?
I noticed you made no mention of plyo push ups.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:28 AM   #104
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Default Re: The limits of bodyweight training?

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I noticed you made no mention of plyo push ups.
I don't think plyometrics are good for hypertrophy. The muscle doesn't spend long enough under stress. Thus it's a great exercise for sports people but there is little value other then function. Think that's right and I'm hoping I've made sense with my answer as I've literally only read your post puma.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:46 AM   #105
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Default Re: The limits of bodyweight training?

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I don't think plyometrics are good for hypertrophy. The muscle doesn't spend long enough under stress. Thus it's a great exercise for sports people but there is little value other then function. Think that's right and I'm hoping I've made sense with my answer as I've literally only read your post puma.

Yes, so after push ups (if you train them long you can buy push up bar and train it will be better. Then you can add some weight but or do wall stand push ups. do people add weght for dips ? yes but what will happen?
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