Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-01-2007, 10:35 PM   #16
Bigcat
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Valley of the shadow of death . Remember a desperate man is a dangerous man !!
Posts: 10,722
vCash: 300
Default Re: Tyson vs Larry Holmes

During the first fight although Razor threw some tough shots he too often looked shabby and vulnerable , which eventually led to the referee stepping in and saving him whilst he appeared sloppy and almost at the end of his game.. Had he been a little more driven and single minded , and even a bit better conditioned he may have got to mike.. The second fight he just showed a desire to merely survive and not drive Mike back.. Razors heart was not as big as Douglas's .. a great opportunity wasted , who knows , had he pushed harder and showed more comitment he may have replicated Busters solid feat.....
Bigcat is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-01-2007, 10:42 PM   #17
tays001
ESB ELITE SQUAD
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: PITTSBURG CA
Posts: 7,528
vCash: 75
Default Re: Tyson vs Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
What's with your lack of anything constructive to say, ever?
DAM SWEET PEA IT WAS IN DIRECT RESPONSE TO HIS LACK OF PROOF TO HOW NO ONE EVER STOOD UP TO A PRIME TYSON .

ALSO TO GET HIM PISSED .

WHY WERE YOU INTRESTED

Last edited by SuzieQ49; 08-26-2006 at 03:57 PM.
tays001 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2007, 10:59 PM   #18
tays001
ESB ELITE SQUAD
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: PITTSBURG CA
Posts: 7,528
vCash: 75
Default Re: Tyson vs Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Do you realize he was joking and saying that to antagonize those who say the same thing about Tyson?

He posted a video of someone standing up to Tyson and getting KO'd, and you thought he was being serious?
well im a tyson fan so o well i retract every thing i said
tays001 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2007, 12:14 AM   #19
2ironmt
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,454
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fighting Weight
I agree with that, up until the stoppage Holmes was handling Tyson pretty well but Holmes was overweight and undertrained, not to mention ring rusty. The fight always had a look of inevitability about it but as you say prime Holmes was a different proposition. Prime Holmes wouldn't definately beat Tyson but would have had a big advantage.
have you guys watched the whole fight? they show it on espn classic once per month. holmes didn't win any of the previous rounds and only had a couple of decent spurts before getting pummelled.
prime holmes would've been a true test for tyson in his peak years because of his top notch jab. but no way is holmes a clear favorite imo. despite being shorter, if witherspoon can give a not too old holmes all he can handle something tells me that the much quicker and more skillled tyson would give holmes fits.
2ironmt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2007, 12:32 AM   #20
Illmatic
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 3,045
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Larry Holmes

damn, i forgot how fast tyson was
Illmatic is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2007, 02:33 AM   #21
Marnoff
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,606
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigcat
Its easy to say that when you sit back in hindsight, but at the time imagine being #1 challenger knowing that every other man who fought him got demolished by him.. and you are more than likely going to be next.. Its daunting.

Tucker , Biggs were the first two to jab and dash with any effect and Larry used that as a blueprint.. The mistake he made was thinking that he could get physical at some point with Mike.. Douglas later utilised that jab and move style with added spice and a much larger desire to victor over Mike.. Where TNT , Biggs and Larry stood at distance , ouglas took intelligent chances to counter mike and make him feel like he couldn't intimidate James..

That was a big part of the key..

Ruddock tried it and just came up short..

Then Holyfield used the "HIT THE BULLY FIRST" approach that was most effective. Once everyone saw Mike closed down once he couldn't intimidate you, they took the game to him and many were succesful.. Danny W and Lewis.. (even though it was a jaded version by then) Mike was great while he had the aura but once that evaporated , he became one dimensional.. I love Mike and it broke my heart..
You put weight on his Lewis and Williams fights...?
Marnoff is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2007, 12:39 PM   #22
Stone_Roberto
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 104
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Larry Holmes

I liked the way Holmes moved in the video, and I would give him a chance, but its always upto the fighter to prove their case by their actions in the ring at the time.

A shop worn Duran handled Camachio well whereas an older SRL had many problems with him.
Stone_Roberto is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2007, 12:47 PM   #23
Stickandmove
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,354
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fighting Weight
I doubt that a 24 year old Tyson who had been undisputed champion of the world for a couple of years needed to be taught head movement by anyone, he knew all about head movement. The mistake the new team made was to allow him to get lazy and believe his own bullshit - Rooney wouldn't have allowed that to happen.

Tyson always has been and always will be his own worst enemy. It's tragic, I love watching him as a fighter, but I struggle to sympathise with him. Could have been the best ever, ended up practically broke and bowing out to Kevin McBride. Who'd have thought that could have happened back in 1988 eh?
Those were nice words from Tyson; they feature near the start of the documentary 'Champions forever'. A great documentary that but Ali, Norton and Frazier sound punch drunk and that was 1989!

Tyson could often be surprisingly gracious after fights; I reckon he was 'high' after fights on endorphins
Stickandmove is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2007, 01:24 PM   #24
SevenSamurai
3 year ESB vet.
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 868
vCash: 500
Default Re: Tyson vs Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Montana
Sophism. Haven't you at least made the effort to assess the reasons why some of Tyson's opponents (those specifically who fought him while he was in his prime) were reluctant to take chances?

Moreover how does one short clip of one fight proves that "no one ever stood up to him and tried to hit him"?

Ludicrous...
Exactly, in his prime Tyson had the foot speed and hand speed which blinded his opponents. His speed was also his power. If you cant see the punch coming you cannot dodge it. The only way to neutralise it was to hold everytime he got inside, at his best though this just was not possible. People need to judge this ATG based on what he produced at his peak level rather than when he started his long decline in 1990, due to lack of commitment and complacency.
SevenSamurai is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2007, 02:27 PM   #25
2ironmt
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,454
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Presscot
Prime Holmes would have done to Tyson EXACTLY what Buster Douglas did. All Tyson needed to do after the Douglas fight was wash Buster's socks in a sink every night.
the only problem with that analysis is that the tyson who lost to douglas was under trained, unfocused in camp, and simply wasn't as good as the tyson of just a couple fights earlier. NOT saying that holmes couldn't beat a peak Tyson but its a toss up. Again see holmes witherspoon
2ironmt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2007, 02:38 PM   #26
Rollo
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 702
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ironmt
the only problem with that analysis is that the tyson who lost to douglas was under trained, unfocused in camp, and simply wasn't as good as the tyson of just a couple fights earlier. NOT saying that holmes couldn't beat a peak Tyson but its a toss up. Again see holmes witherspoon

But we´re talking BUSTER! Tyson should have beat him under trained, or not!
Rollo is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2007, 03:11 PM   #27
pit
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,080
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone_Roberto
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Yep, this video proves that no one who ever fought Tyson stood upto him and tried to hit him. That's why Tyson is over-rated.

you do realize this same Holmes that was so brutally KO by a young mike tyson 5 year later would out box gold medal winner Ray mercer , extend a young Holyfield to 12 round and still have enough left in the tank to out box butter bean at the tender age of 53.

Holmes is a testament of how powerful and skilled a young tyson was, and how can anyone say that Cotto is the real deal and in the same breath say that tyson was phony when Cotto style looks almost identical to tyson's..
pit is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2007, 04:12 PM   #28
2ironmt
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,454
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
But we´re talking BUSTER! Tyson should have beat him under trained, or not!
we all got our opinions but if you watch that fight, buster was awesome that night and had other very good performances (along with some clunkers). buster was erratic. but in tokyo especially he'd be a tough fight for any hw all time -- 6'4, excellent jab, extemely motivated with the passing of his ma, good quickness, top chin, very good power... find some flaws in his game that night, its hard.

and also it just wasn't that tyson was underprepared, he had let his skills decline for some time by that point
2ironmt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2007, 04:17 PM   #29
2ironmt
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,454
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Tyson vs Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Presscot
Any version of Tyson, including the Tyson who ko'd Spinks would have gotten impregnated by Douglas.
ahhh that tyson didn't even get "impregnated" by Douglas. Douglass beat him convincingly but Tyson did some damage and obviously floored him. That said as I just replied -- Douglass of that night would give peak Tyson fits and any HW for that matter.
2ironmt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2007, 06:15 PM   #30
Bigcat
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Valley of the shadow of death . Remember a desperate man is a dangerous man !!
Posts: 10,722
vCash: 300
Default Re: Tyson vs Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnoff
You put weight on his Lewis and Williams fights...?
yes, even though they were both out of Mikes better years , they still took the pressure route and pushed him back where most fellers stood and gave too much respect to Mike allowing that edge to sway in Tysons favour.. The worst examples of that were Bruno and Seldon, they were terrified and battered before they left the dressing room..
Bigcat is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013