Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-03-2007, 11:55 AM   #31
OLD FOGEY
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,835
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How good were the white hopes?

[quote=Mendoza]
Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor

McCarthy lost and drew a few times. If he was that big and talented, raw ability alone keeps him from losing. Yet it did not. Povetkin has yet to lose a pro. If he were to stop boxing tomorrow, I believe he is a better " what if " than McCarty, though McCarty is certainly a very good " what if " for Johnson, Wills, and Dempsey.
I think Povetkin is 28. Remember that all these "losses" and "draws" you are talking about were close no decisions in which this paper said this and that paper that. How bad is it to "lose" a close decision to Jeff Clarke when you are 19 and in your first year of active fighting? I would say that fighting a future heavyweight champion in Willard to a standstill at barely 20 years of age could be viewed as a positive, not a negative.
OLD FOGEY is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-03-2007, 01:08 PM   #32
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,286
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How good were the white hopes?

[quote=OLD FOGEY]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza

I think Povetkin is 28. Remember that all these "losses" and "draws" you are talking about were close no decisions in which this paper said this and that paper that. How bad is it to "lose" a close decision to Jeff Clarke when you are 19 and in your first year of active fighting? I would say that fighting a future heavyweight champion in Willard to a standstill at barely 20 years of age could be viewed as a positive, not a negative.
I agree. It just I think his reputation exceeds his ring results.
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2007, 02:29 PM   #33
TBooze
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South of London
Posts: 10,876
vCash: 765
Default Re: How good were the white hopes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
The white hope campaign was conceived in sin and it imploded in tragedy.
But that is not irony...
TBooze is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2007, 03:37 PM   #34
mattdonnellon
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,937
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How good were the white hopes?

McCarty was pretty good based on his record, only a fool would dismiss his potential. The Palzar win which cemented his status would ultimatedly prove to be unflattering as Al imploded. Pelkey was'nt much either and Flynn was losing a lot at this time. Moran too lost a lot to weak opposition so while great credit is due to the inexperienced and youthful Luther, he had not in truth achieved a lot and we can only speculate as to what he might have achieved.
mattdonnellon is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2007, 04:10 PM   #35
Bummy Davis
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 9,487
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How good were the white hopes?

I read many storys of Luther McCarthy and how good he was, he had size 6"4 and was a well built man, but the day before the fight he fell off a horse and hit his head hard, it only took a glancing punch to kill him and when he layed there in the ring a ray of light shone directley on MarCarthy's lifeless torso....Erie...I guess the powers that be had other plans
Bummy Davis is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2007, 05:43 PM   #36
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,311
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How good were the white hopes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdonnellon
McCarty was pretty good based on his record, only a fool would dismiss his potential. The Palzar win which cemented his status would ultimatedly prove to be unflattering as Al imploded. Pelkey was'nt much either and Flynn was losing a lot at this time. Moran too lost a lot to weak opposition so while great credit is due to the inexperienced and youthful Luther, he had not in truth achieved a lot and we can only speculate as to what he might have achieved.
He won the white heavyweight title verry early in his career. I think he would only have got better from there and bigger too. Hard to say how far he would have gone but he had already established himself as a future title challenger when he died and done as much asw the other white hopes did in their entire careers.

Incidentaly I think Pelkey was going places if he hadnt killed McCarthy. They kind of canceled each other out.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2007, 05:58 PM   #37
RoccoMarciano
Blockbuster
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,446
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How good were the white hopes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
He won the white heavyweight title verry early in his career. I think he would only have got better from there and bigger too. Hard to say how far he would have gone but he had already established himself as a future title challenger when he died and done as much asw the other white hopes did in their entire careers.

Incidentaly I think Pelkey was going places if he hadnt killed McCarthy. They kind of canceled each other out.
Do you have any articles on McCarthy, Janitor?
RoccoMarciano is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2007, 06:05 PM   #38
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,311
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How good were the white hopes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoccoMarciano
Do you have any articles on McCarthy, Janitor?
This article by Tracy Callis gives one perspective

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2007, 06:21 PM   #39
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,286
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How good were the white hopes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoccoMarciano
Do you have any articles on McCarthy, Janitor?
I have a good one on McCarty. The article Janitor posted indicates Smith would have defeated McCarty.

Quote:
f McCarty had defeated Pelkey, it's likely his next opponent would have been the Philadelphia native, Edward "Gunboat" Smith. The "Gunner" was a seasoned man with an enviable record against many of the best in the business, including Sam Langford, the "Nova Scotia Gnome." In 1914, he was at his peak, while McCarty was still learning, so chances were that Smith could have emerged the winner in a close fight.
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2007, 07:29 PM   #40
amhlilhaus
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 882
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How good were the white hopes?

I read the article, and while the author has passion, I was disappointed he didn't discuss anything about the hopes, he only mentioned a couple by name and seems to act like he could have gotten in the ring and beaten all the white hopes.
amhlilhaus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2007, 07:59 PM   #41
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,311
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How good were the white hopes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
The article Janitor posted indicates Smith would have defeated McCarty.
As he probably would.

McCarthy wasnt ready for Smith yet.

But is you look at the length of his career and how much he did in it it is special.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2007, 07:36 PM   #42
Ringrat
Amateur
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 246
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How good were the white hopes?

I helped Tracy with that article. Smith wanted to fight McCarty, but Billy McCarney was not interested yet. He was talking to Jack Johnson's people and he wanted a bigger cut than Jack was willing to concede. Then tragedy struck in Tommy Burns' Arena in Calgary.
Ringrat is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2007, 07:12 AM   #43
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,286
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How good were the white hopes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringrat
I helped Tracy with that article. Smith wanted to fight McCarty, but Billy McCarney was not interested yet. He was talking to Jack Johnson's people and he wanted a bigger cut than Jack was willing to concede. Then tragedy struck in Tommy Burns' Arena in Calgary.
Here is a decent read on Luther McCarty. Can you read it Ring Rat?

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2007, 05:01 AM   #44
mattdonnellon
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,937
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How good were the white hopes?

A nice informative piece. It doesn't however tell us much about McCartys standing as a white hope except that he hammered Morris, considered quite a feat at the time but subsequently devalued as Morris proved not to be very much.
mattdonnellon is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2007, 07:44 AM   #45
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,286
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How good were the white hopes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdonnellon
A nice informative piece. It doesn't however tell us much about McCartys standing as a white hope except that he hammered Morris, considered quite a feat at the time but subsequently devalued as Morris proved not to be very much.
Thanks. I have a special read on McCarty that needs to be re-formated before I post it.

Here's another question on the " white hopes ". Could McCarty, GunBoat Smith, Jack Dillion or Kid McCoy been champion in any other era?

I think so. The early 1930's come to mind.
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013