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Old 01-25-2013, 06:36 PM   #39991
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Default Re: *** The official 2012/2013 NBA season shootaround ***

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I agree with that. Dwight does seem like a guy who likes to have fun like Shaq did, but Shaq knew when to turn off the fun.
Pretty much anyone you ask (except maybe Kobe ) who ever played with him would peg Shaq for a positive teammate and presence in the locker room.

Many have gone on record saying so, and it showed in his willingness to contribute however needed until the very end. When he was chasing rings past his prime, he never complained about minutes or touches. It was "how can I help out?".
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:41 PM   #39992
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Default Re: *** The official 2012/2013 NBA season shootaround ***

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something is missing this year. I don't see them as the same team. Kobe is old and Nash is old and Howard is hurt. MWP is old. It is just relative to a younger NBA now and Kobe and Nash are just past greats. How are they supposed to play like they did 15 years ago. On a stat sheet the numbers do not change as much as the energy on the floor. If you compare Kobe in 2000 to Kobe now and look at video it is huge difference. He was so quick then. I think the turnovers are a directly related to the Lakers age. A coach cannot change that, unless he can work something into the Lakers favor like Jackson did. but even Phil Jackson could not help this team. They need an overhaul I think. A big one and get some younger players. I am curious to see if Dwight (regardless of what team he goes to) gets back to how he was prior to his back surgery.
But kobe is better this year than last year. Nash is definitely an upgrade over fisher. Even if you say MWP is older and our bench is a bit thinner, that does not account for the massive decrease in wins. I mean we're 7 games below .500? The two biggest personnel changes have been Nash for Fisher, D'Antoni for Brown and Howard for Bynum. Nash is definitely an upgrade. And even if Bynum > Howard the single biggest difference is still D'Antoni for Brown. and this is coming from someone who hated mike brown with a passion!

Of course it's not as simple as that. There are a lot of intangibles to consider. Overall i think its safe to say that the biggest problem is the harmony and chemistry. The Harmony is a direct result of Kobe being selfish and Dwight being a childish immature shit. The chemistry issue is on D'Antoni. He hasn't been able to get this group playing. I mean even shit teams luck into wins. But the lakers don;t even do that. It's ALL wrong. Playing an up tempo style with an old ageing roster without shooters is one of the most idiotic tactical decisions I can think of. Phil Jackson or Popovich probably can;t get this team a top 4 record either because like you said, there are deep rooted fundamental issues with this roster. But 17-24 is a shambles. It's inexcusable. And if they hadn't already fired a coach this year, D'Antoni would have got the axe by now. GUARANTEED. The lakers have ****ed themselves
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:42 PM   #39993
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Default Re: *** The official 2012/2013 NBA season shootaround ***

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Pretty much anyone you ask (except maybe Kobe ) who ever played with him would peg Shaq for a positive teammate and presence in the locker room.

Many have gone on record saying so, and it showed in his willingness to contribute however needed until the very end. When he was chasing rings past his prime, he never complained about minutes or touches. It was "how can I help out?".
I think Shaq becomes a problem after a while. He seems to be good in small doses. He did kind of leave nearly every team he played on on a negative note...
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:43 PM   #39994
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I think Shaq becomes a problem after a while. He seems to be good in small doses. He did kind of leave nearly every team he played on on a negative note...
Wasn't that usually more front office than his peers? (again, with the exception of #24...)
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:44 PM   #39995
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Wasn't that usually more front office than his peers? (again, with the exception of #24...)
I suppose so yea. I don't remember exactly (i was just getting into the nba at the time) but didn't he have some sort of beef with D-Wade in Miami in the end?
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:09 PM   #39996
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Default Re: *** The official 2012/2013 NBA season shootaround ***

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I suppose so yea. I don't remember exactly (i was just getting into the nba at the time) but didn't he have some sort of beef with D-Wade in Miami in the end?
No. He had beef with Pat Riley. He shitted on the Miami Heat organization when he went to Phoenix.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:35 PM   #39997
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Default Re: *** The official 2012/2013 NBA season shootaround ***

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I suppose so yea. I don't remember exactly (i was just getting into the nba at the time) but didn't he have some sort of beef with D-Wade in Miami in the end?
Yes there was some controversy in the playoffs where some media members started saying it was the passing of the torch and the heat were becoming wade's team. Because of how good wade was playing and how bad shaq was doing. A few teammates and shaq reiterated in the media that it was Shaq's team not wade. If memory serves me right wade had a great game that saved them from a lost and shaq and mourning who was one of the main guys saying it was shaq's team looked foolish in the media afterwards.


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Old 01-25-2013, 07:44 PM   #39998
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No. He had beef with Pat Riley. He shitted on the Miami Heat organization when he went to Phoenix.
Didn't Shaq always shit on the previous team he was on? He and Kobe don't get a long with many people. Miami was doing badly and Shaq wanted out and they sent him to the Suns, which at the time were doing best in the league I think. I don't recall, but I am not sure they made the playoffs after Shaq came to the team.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:48 PM   #39999
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I think Shaq becomes a problem after a while. He seems to be good in small doses. He did kind of leave nearly every team he played on on a negative note...
that is the story I have also. I am surprised Shaq and Kobe lasted as long as they did. Probably having good chemistry and winning the titles helped them get along. How long did Kobe and Shaq play together? something like 8 years? I do believe had Shaq stayed in shape the Lakers could have won 2 more rings with Kobe and Shaq. Shaq only got in shape after he went to Miami in 2004, and they won the ring in 2006 I think.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:23 PM   #40000
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Default Re: *** The official 2012/2013 NBA season shootaround ***

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I don't think it is coach issue. Brown or Jackson or DAntoni will not help a team which has either older players or bad bench players.
They did much better with Bickerstaff on the bench than D'antoni. Once Toni took over, they started losing again.

Toni has a worse record running the team than Brown did. Also, Brown and Bernie didn't have Nash running the floor and still had better records than Toni.

No, it's not just the coach. Kobe being selfish and Pau being a gimp are factors, but Toni can't coach.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:27 PM   #40001
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Default Re: *** The official 2012/2013 NBA season shootaround ***

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Old 01-25-2013, 08:29 PM   #40002
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Default Re: *** The official 2012/2013 NBA season shootaround ***

Shaq also had a hard time when Wade's play outshined his. Once the team became Wade's, Shaq hated on him. Not as much as Kobe, but he said some things, and the things he didn't say were more telling. He wouldn't give Wade credit for anything.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:30 PM   #40003
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Default Re: *** The official 2012/2013 NBA season shootaround ***

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Old 01-25-2013, 08:32 PM   #40004
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Spo being bailed out by LeGoat and Wade again. Spo out!!! NOW!!!
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:47 PM   #40005
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Default Re: *** The official 2012/2013 NBA season shootaround ***

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Shaq also had a hard time when Wade's play outshined his. Once the team became Wade's, Shaq hated on him. Not as much as Kobe, but he said some things, and the things he didn't say were more telling. He wouldn't give Wade credit for anything.
Maybe so but Shaq gave Wade that team. I remember Shaq saying how he was to old to lead a team after their first year. Shaq probably had a change of heart. Shaq did give Wade credit for the 06 finals. He even defends Wade to this day about it.
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