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Old 11-03-2007, 12:10 PM   #1
ChrisPontius
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Default Fights that could've happened in reality that you want to see

Some to come to mind:

Jim Jeffries vs Jack Johnson in 1905. Jeffries at his peak, Johnson close to his. Would be a great fight and with the knowledge we have now, a best win on either's resume.

George Foreman vs Jerry Quarry anywhere between 1971-1973. Quarry was at his best against big, slower punchers although he'd probably be outgunned here. Still, could be one hell of a fight.

Ike Ibeabuchi vs Lennox Lewis in 1999 or 2000. I think Ibeabuchi had a bit of a leaky defense but he was incredibly talented and had a good chin, technique and power to go with that.

Wladimir Klitschko vs Lennox Lewis in 2001 or 2002. Wlad hadn't yet reached his peak as a fighter, but offensively he was extremely skilled, fast and powerful. Would be in big trouble if Lewis lands something big as he hadn't really learnt how to deal with being hurt yet, but a great fight anyway.

Jimmy Young vs Larry Holmes somewhere between '76 and '77. Young declined hard after '78, but a win over Young in '77 may well have been Holmes' career biggest win. Could be a rather boring fight, but interesting from a "who beats who" and chess match point of view.

Marvin Hagler vs Michael Spinks in 1983. Interesting to see how Hagler would deal with the disadvantages and how his chin holds up.

Larry Holmes vs George Foreman before Young got to him, somewhere '76 and '77.

Larry Holmes vs Pinklon Thomas around '83, '84 or '85 when Thomas was at his peak with a one-punch knockout over Weaver. I think it would be interesting to see how Holmes deals with Thomas's great jab and vice-versa.

Larry Holmes vs Tim Witherspoon II right after their first match. It would be interesting to see whether Holmes could go to the drawing board and figure Witherspoon out or whether it would turn out to be like Norton was to Ali.

Roy Jones vs Bernard Hopkins II anywhere in the 90's basically. Hopkins pretty much priced himself out of it and Jones had nothing to prove as he comfortably beat him already, but Hopkins did improve somewhat and Jones was having a lot of easy fights. Despite their boring first fight, i would've love to see this rematch.

Joe Louis vs Elmer Ray in 1946 or 47. He was the #1 and #2 contender when Louis was on the tour. Would be great to see.

Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson in 1996. Tyson dropped his belt to avoid Lewis when Lewis was the mandatory for his WBC belt. He fought a rematch with McCall for the vacant WBC title and needed that rematch, but a fight with Tyson would've been great. Some people like to pretend that Tyson was "shot" when he fought Holyfield, but i think he was still a great fighter. Against Bruno in 1996 he showed great speed, power, head movement, the whole package.

George Foreman vs Muhammad Ali II somewhere in '76-'77, when Foreman was the mandatory. Would be interesting to see if he could redeem himself.
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Old 11-03-2007, 12:14 PM   #2
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Default Re: Fights that could've happened in reality that you want to see

Nice list!

I would add Robinson-Burley and Armstrong-Burley and Robinson-Burley II, those would be the ones I wold really like to see.

I actually think about Robinson-Burley most days.
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Old 11-03-2007, 01:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: Fights that could've happened in reality that you want to see

Roberto Duran vs. Benitez at 147lbs in 1979, Benitez was champ and Duran ruled lightweight and had just moved up.

Alexis Arguello vs. Roberto Duran at 135lbs in 1978 Arguello was the Super featherweight champ and stepped up to lightweight but lost to Vilomar Fernandez in tune up had he won this fight he would have fought Duran probably in the same year.

Alexis Arguello vs. Wilfredo Gomes at featherweight 1977 Wilfredo just won the 122lbs title and Arguello just moved to 130lbs but had Gomez moved up early and Alexis stayed at featherweight for another year this could have happened.

Tony Zale vs. Burley, Williams, Booker, Charles, Moore, Marshall, Bivins, LaMotta and Chase anytime between 1941 and 1948. The title being frozen for a portion of this time didn't help but the fact he didn't want to fight any of them, which is a shame especially when almost all of them were rated very highly at the time.

Julio Cesar Chavez vs. Azumha Nelson in 1987 Azumha would move up a year later to 130lbs at which point Chavez had just moved to 135lbs in fact Azumha won the title Chavez left vacant. This fight would have been a war at a weight were both men were great.
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Old 11-03-2007, 01:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: Fights that could've happened in reality that you want to see

Holman Williams v Jake LaMotta three or four years earlier would have been nice. LaMotta scored a split decision over Williams when Holman was all but done, and the decision was booed by the crowd (can you imagine, the all action pressure fighter scores a split decision over the pure boxer and gets booed). I bet Williams could have picked a decision out.
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Old 11-03-2007, 01:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: Fights that could've happened in reality that you want to see

Honestly I cant really speak for anything earlier then say 2000 because I was born in 87 so ive missed alot or was to young to know what was going around in boxing. I always wanted to see Mosley-Trinidad right after he beat DLH im not sure why they never tried to make it until March 2004 it was set but Mosley lost to Winky Wright. Naseem Hamed vs Erik Morales right after Barrera had beaten both around 2002 I really wanted it but Hamed just stopped fighting. Quartey-Trinidad was on my wish lish in the early 2000s but gave up on it. Tyson-Jones Jr around 2004 wouldve been insane. Also wanted to see DLH vs Vernon Forrest just curious to see if DLH couldve did what Mosley couldnt but then Mayorga ruined it. Tszyu-Mayweather I even wanted it after Zoo lost to Hatton because to me its such in intriguing bout where id give Tszyu a chance because of styles. Castillo-Corrales 3 obviously.
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Old 11-03-2007, 01:21 PM   #6
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Default Re: Fights that could've happened in reality that you want to see

LEONARD V PRYOR @ 147
MORALES V HAMED @ 126
FRAZIER V NORTON
ROBINSON V ZALE @ 160
ROBINSON V MAXIM 2 @ 175
MORALES V MARQUEZ @ 126
RICKSON V SAKURABA IN MMA
CALZAGHE V JONES JR @ 168

Theres so many I will leave it at that & all the winners are on the left hand side.

Ps. A dream match that wasnt possible but both fighters were great at this weight, 2 of the all time greats at the weight & it would have been out & out bloody trench warfare = Arguello v Chavez @ 130


I cant call a winner in that 1.
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Old 11-03-2007, 01:23 PM   #7
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Default Re: Fights that could've happened in reality that you want to see

Leonard vs Pryor - would have been great, the Pryor status would have been balanced out and all the STL avoiding myth laid to rest.

Holmes vs Page - Larry in his slightly declining years would have had to beat a top contender in his prime.

Sanchez vs Gomez II - Would have dispelled any doubts and excuses.

Spinks vs Qawi II - Dwight's problems led to the cancellation, pity.

Spinks vs EMM II - Damn interesting.

Hagler vs Hearns II - Hagler getting older and Hearns with better tactics.

SRL vs Hearns II - Hearns a better proposition at 154.

Sanchez vs Pedroza - Lord how! Read below.

Chandler vs Pintor - Should have damn well happened, two totally dominant champs in the same divsions re: Sanchez - Pedroza.
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: Fights that could've happened in reality that you want to see

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Legend
tyson was a minimum of 8 years past his best in 1996, not to mention a 3 year prison stint and a complete lack of a decent corner/trainer.
If Tyson was a minimum 8 years past his best in 1996, that takes us back to 1988 at the latest he was past it.

So when was his prime?, 1986-1988?. God, thats a very short prime.

Thats exactly the problem of rating Tyson as a truely great fighter. He never had any significant wins past his prime. Ruddock and regaining the title from Bruno are the best wins outwith his prime.

People who make excuses for Tyson being past his prime against Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis, and having 3 years in prison are actually making matters worse rather than better for him in their defense.

Great fighters have BIG wins past their primes. Ali against Foreman, Robinson against Fullmer, Duran against Barkley, and Leonard against Hagler.
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: Fights that could've happened in reality that you want to see

If I was a fan of a fighter, it would be great for me to say he had great significant wins while past his prime.

Using excuses like "he was 8 years past his prime, and had been 3 years inactive" simply makes your fighter look bad rather than good. Its doing it effectively against quality oppositiaon when past your prime that makes you look good.

Tyson was 29/30 years old when Holyfield handed him his ass, what did he do after that?. Even worse what did he do after Douglas smashed him at only 23?.

80% of Tyson's opposition was tomato cans after Douglas.
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: Fights that could've happened in reality that you want to see

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Some to come to mind:

Jim Jeffries vs Jack Johnson in 1905. Jeffries at his peak, Johnson close to his. Would be a great fight and with the knowledge we have now, a best win on either's resume.

George Foreman vs Jerry Quarry anywhere between 1971-1973. Quarry was at his best against big, slower punchers although he'd probably be outgunned here. Still, could be one hell of a fight.

Ike Ibeabuchi vs Lennox Lewis in 1999 or 2000. I think Ibeabuchi had a bit of a leaky defense but he was incredibly talented and had a good chin, technique and power to go with that.

Wladimir Klitschko vs Lennox Lewis in 2001 or 2002. Wlad hadn't yet reached his peak as a fighter, but offensively he was extremely skilled, fast and powerful. Would be in big trouble if Lewis lands something big as he hadn't really learnt how to deal with being hurt yet, but a great fight anyway.

Jimmy Young vs Larry Holmes somewhere between '76 and '77. Young declined hard after '78, but a win over Young in '77 may well have been Holmes' career biggest win. Could be a rather boring fight, but interesting from a "who beats who" and chess match point of view.

Marvin Hagler vs Michael Spinks in 1983. Interesting to see how Hagler would deal with the disadvantages and how his chin holds up.

Larry Holmes vs George Foreman before Young got to him, somewhere '76 and '77.

Larry Holmes vs Pinklon Thomas around '83, '84 or '85 when Thomas was at his peak with a one-punch knockout over Weaver. I think it would be interesting to see how Holmes deals with Thomas's great jab and vice-versa.

Larry Holmes vs Tim Witherspoon II right after their first match. It would be interesting to see whether Holmes could go to the drawing board and figure Witherspoon out or whether it would turn out to be like Norton was to Ali.

Roy Jones vs Bernard Hopkins II anywhere in the 90's basically. Hopkins pretty much priced himself out of it and Jones had nothing to prove as he comfortably beat him already, but Hopkins did improve somewhat and Jones was having a lot of easy fights. Despite their boring first fight, i would've love to see this rematch.

Joe Louis vs Elmer Ray in 1946 or 47. He was the #1 and #2 contender when Louis was on the tour. Would be great to see.

Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson in 1996. Tyson dropped his belt to avoid Lewis when Lewis was the mandatory for his WBC belt. He fought a rematch with McCall for the vacant WBC title and needed that rematch, but a fight with Tyson would've been great. Some people like to pretend that Tyson was "shot" when he fought Holyfield, but i think he was still a great fighter. Against Bruno in 1996 he showed great speed, power, head movement, the whole package.

George Foreman vs Muhammad Ali II somewhere in '76-'77, when Foreman was the mandatory. Would be interesting to see if he could redeem himself.
Nice list. Don't forget Foreman-Holmes anywhere from 1992-1997.
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Old 11-03-2007, 03:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: Fights that could've happened in reality that you want to see

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Legend
the fact that he was able to hold his own against holyfield for about 5 rounds as well as beat bruno, seldon, and a few others while being almost completely shot is impressive in it's own right.
Holyfield himself was past his prime against Tyson. He wasn't given a prayer before the first bell rang. Tyson was exposed, plain and simple.

How many fans/press said "Tyson was completley shot before he lost to Holyfield" Not many, thats for sure. If Tyson was completley shot he would not have lasted 5 rounds against Holyfield.

When a fighter is completely shot, his punch resistance is extremely weak, speed rapidly diminished, and he's a shell of what he once was.

Im not saying Tyson was in his prime against Holyfield, but he was still a damn good fighter.
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Old 11-03-2007, 03:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: Fights that could've happened in reality that you want to see

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Legend
the fact that he was able to hold his own against holyfield for about 5 rounds as well as beat bruno, seldon, and a few others while being almost completely shot is impressive in it's own right.
IMO, the above comes to the conclusion Tyson was not a great rfighter in your eyes.

Holding your own and more than holding your own against an equal, aka winning. Seperates the great ones from the average ones.

Before the first bell, Holyfield was past his best, and Tyson was going to kill him inside 2 rounds. And we all know what happened, the rest is history.
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Old 11-03-2007, 03:24 PM   #13
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Default Re: Fights that could've happened in reality that you want to see

George Foreman managed to turn the tables against Moorer with a single right hand. 20 years after losing the title at the age of 45. At the grandad stage of his life while being the underdog. "and the neeeeeeeeeewww heavyweight champion of the world"

Tyson also had power to turn the tables, but lacked the self belief and the mentality of a great fighter to do a similar job. He had his chances against Holyfield in the rematch and years later against Lewis. Failure.
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Old 11-03-2007, 03:26 PM   #14
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Default Re: Fights that could've happened in reality that you want to see

Excellent names have been mentioned to start this thread. In addition to those matchups, I'm surprised that Bowe/Lewis wasn't immediately mentioned. What if Big Daddy had not trashed the WBC belt, but did indeed defend against Lennox?

If an injury hadn't caused Tyson/Holyfield I to be cancelled before Tyson's incarceration, how might that one have turned out?

Tunney/Dempsey I had to take place in Philadelphia because the NYSAC demanded that Dempsey defend against Wills in New York instead. While Wills was made to order for Dempsey, Harry did deserve a shot before Gene.

Ali/Machen in the mid 1960s would have been interesting. Eddie had the size and skill of Zora Folley, but also had toughness Folley lacked. Liston/Quarry was a matchup Sonny was anticipating in his interview with Cosell immediately following his stoppage of Henry Clark. I would have loved to see a rematch between Quarry and Chuvalo. Jerry most likely was going to try avenging his loss with a knockout win of his own, if that ever came off.

Foreman/Shavers would have been interesting for one simple reason. Big George sad it should be illegal for anybody to hit as hard as Lyle hit him. Leroy Caldwell said "Shavers hit harder than Foreman and Lyle combined." Although I'm confident George would have stopped Earnie, I'm equally as confident that he wouldn't have done so without feeling the full force of the hardest punch Shavers was capable of delivering. Foreman's feedback about Earnie's power is something boxing fans have really missed out on.

Corbett/Jackson II, for the undisputed heavyweight championship. Jackson had defeated Paddy Slavin for the Commonwealth Heavyweight Title shortly before Corbett dethroned John L. Sullivan for the American Heavyweight Championship. Jackson was recognized as Champion over a quarter of the planet, reigning over the largest empire the world has ever known. (I consider Jackson to have been a co-world champion, equal to Corbett and Sullivan.) Jackson was a gentleman in every sense of the word. A title unification bout between him and Corbett would have made crossing the color line more acceptable to the general public, regardless of the outcome. That would have paved the way for Langford and Wills to eventually get title shots themselves in a timely manner.

Duran/Hearns in 1980, to unify the WW Championship. Once Duran had dethroned SRL in Montreal, the burning desire to overcome Ray had gone. But after the devastating way Hearns took out Cuevas, El Cholo would have had tremendous incentive to prevail against an awesome new challenge, one taken on with dedication, caution and determination. In the aftermath of what Tommy did to Pipino, Duran's attitude could hardly be cavalier. I believe that match would have ended with Duran as the undisputed WW Champion.

Burns/Langford. This is the one heavyweight champion who Langford might have been able to dethrone. Burns/McVey. This one almost came off before Burns took on Johnson. If it had, perhaps Wills would have gotten a shot later at Willard.

Willard/Wills would have been Harry's best shot at winning the title. Jess was too big for Langford, in my estimation, but hardly too tall for Wills to bust the chops of. If that pairing had come off, then Wills is the one Dempsey would have dethroned to win the title.

Danny Lopez/Wilfredo Gomez. Sal Sanchez came out of nowhere to dethrone Little Red. It happened at a time when Lopez had seemingly run out of viable challengers, except for Gomez, Pedroza being considered too chinny after Zamora had blasted him out. Sanchez was supposed to help build publicity for a Lopez/Gomez superfight. What if Gomez had gotten to Danny first?

Pryor/Mancini. The Hawk and Boom-Boom provided color commentary on Bruce Curry's dethroning of Leroy Haley, and used the time to pitch the idea of a match between them to the public. Pryor was somewhat rudderless after his rematch with Arguello, while Mancini didn't appear enthusiatic about a Youngstown superfight with Harry Arroyo. Unfortunately, they sounded dull and uninspired while talking about it.

In contrast to Boom-Boom and The Hawk, Mike Spinks and Matthew Saad Muhammad sounded very enthusiastic about facing off after Mike starched Marvin Johnson. There didn't appear to be any animosity between them, just good natured highly competitive spirit.

Eddie Mustafa Muhammad/Dwight Muhammad Qawi. This might have been the most fascinating stylistic matchup of the era.

Marvin Hagler/Vinnie Curto. Vinnie Curto was perhaps the most prominent middleweight during Hagler's career who didn't face off against Marv. An outdoor matchup between the two of them might have sold out Fenway Park. When he decisioned mark Frazie in 1984, he had won 29 consecutive matches, had never been knocked out, and sported a record of 55-4-3.
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Old 11-03-2007, 07:13 PM   #15
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Default Re: Fights that could've happened in reality that you want to see

Lewis/Bowe Tyson/Holyfield (91) Holmes/Weaver(rematch) Holmes/Coetzee Holmes/Page Holmes/Thomas/Dokes Ali/Young II Rematch...Duran/Pryor 140lb...Calzage/Hopkins RoyJones/DariusMichaeleski Lewis/Vitali rematch
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