1991 Old Foreman VS 2003 Vitali

[Foreman Hook]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Firstly, Alex Stewart fight was 1992. Morrison was 1993. Moorer was 1994.
We're talking about Foreman in 1991.

Secondly, if Vitali was such a good and smart boxer how would you explain his performance against Lewis ?
Did someone put concrete in his boots ?
He just stood there slugging and hugging and taking a shot to land one.

Top man

VITLAY has never been as far from his Best as Old Foreman was after 1991. + VOIDALI has never beat anyone on the same Grade of fighter as Stewart or Moorer or Tommy And, Morrison/Stewart might have beat VITLAY on cuts.

V.good points about Old, fat Lennox TKO6 Peak VITLAY fight.
VOIDALI showed a slugging-style Old Foreman would exploit/beat him at. Old Foreman has better chin, toughness, Heart, power, Strenght, Stamina - so slugging with him = Suicide. If Old, Slow, v.nearly Shot Lennox can Force VITLAY to slug Haymakers - so can Old Foreman.

so VITLAY would get stopped on cuts cos he has Glass-skin or KO'd as he have Overated un-proven Chin or Quit on stool has he Never shown Heart under Adversity - But he has Quit 2 times Under adveristy VS teh 2 Best men he ever faced - Super-middlewieght Byrd And 38 year old, Xtremely Jaded, Fat Lennox.

[lefthook31]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Firstly, Alex Stewart fight was 1992. Morrison was 1993. Moorer was 1994.
We're talking about Foreman in 1991.

Was there much of a difference? Id say Foremans best performance in his entire comeback was the second to last fight of his career.

Secondly, if Vitali was such a good and smart boxer how would you explain his performance against Lewis ?
Did someone put concrete in his boots ?
He just stood there slugging and hugging and taking a shot to land one

If that was the case and Foreman was so good at controlling the pace of fights, he could have easily beaten Axel Shultz, Tommy Morrison and Mike Moorer. Vitali stood in front of Lewis because Lewis made him, and there is no way in hell Foreman was capable of bringing the same type of pressure Lewis brought to Vitali. He was too slow, never had that kind of reaching righthand and was still leagues slower than Lewis at that time. Im no fan of Vitali's, but his boxing skills and footwork are better than all of the fighters that Foreman had a lot of trouble with. Its a horrible stylistic matchup for old George.

[The Mongoose]

oh god, people are actually realistically considering Foreman.

Old Foreman of 91...89...92..94...doesn't matter. It would look like the Briggs fight last Saturday, Vitali walking around a statue and tagging him with right hands at will. Vitali easy UD.

[Foreman Hook]

Originally Posted by The Mongoose

oh god, people are actually realistically considering Foreman.

Old Foreman of 91...89...92..94...doesn't matter. It would look like the Briggs fight last Saturday, Vitali walking around a statue and tagging him with right hands at will. Vitali easy UD.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKqpOYH7T2k[/ame]

Old Foreman looks as Crappy as v.shot, v.rusty 2010 Shannon Briggs who Lennox Ruined in 1998, in that vid??

Should've gone to SPECSAVERS...you blind.

[The Mongoose]

Originally Posted by Foreman Hook

Old Foreman looks as Crappy as v.shot, v.rusty 2010 Shannon Briggs who Lennox Ruined in 1998, in that vid??

Should've gone to SPECSAVERS...you blind.

I accept your completely unbiased and well thought out opinion. I'm a believer now...Old Foreman of 91 KOs all...even Ali..cuz hez smarter and stronger than the green kid that got schooled in Africa.

[Foreman Hook]

Originally Posted by The Mongoose

I accept your completely unbiased and well thought out opinion. I'm a believer now...Old Foreman of 91 KOs all...even Ali..cuz hez smarter and stronger than the green kid that got schooled in Africa.

Truth.

maybe I favor Ali over Old Foreman as he would be RUNNING with lots And lots of SPEED - BUT there always a v.good Punchers'-Chance with Foreman's monster-Power.

1973 Foreman deffo does KO Ali.

[The Mongoose]

Originally Posted by Foreman Hook

Truth.

maybe I favor Ali over Old Foreman as he would be RUNNING with lots And lots of SPEED - BUT there always a v.good Punchers'-Chance with Foreman's monster-Power.

1973 Foreman deffo does KO Ali.

That's crazy talk!!! The rope a dope wouldn't work against Old Foreman, he would conserve his energy and time Ali with that perfect right cross out of nowhere. Old Foreman KO 8

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by lefthook31

Was there much of a difference? Id say Foremans best performance in his entire comeback was the second to last fight of his career.

I don't agree, but of course there's a debate to be had over whether there was much difference. What I really object to is the ASSUMPTION that 2, 3, 6 years in Foreman's "second career", and several fights, made no difference to him as a fighter.
I don't know of any other fighter who gets that treatment as Foreman does. He's supposedly one uniform fighter from 1987 - '97 in some people's eyes.

Personally I believe the Holyfield and Stewart fights took something out of Foreman, gruelling fights that would probably have taken something out of a 33 year old or younger, never mind a 43 year old.
In his fights against Cooney, Rodrigues and Holyfield I think Foreman was at his best since the 1970s.

Not that I'm arguing that it would be GREATLY significant in analysing this match-up, but it certainly an assumption that needs to be corrected.

Originally Posted by lefthook31

If that was the case and Foreman was so good at controlling the pace of fights, he could have easily beaten Axel Shultz, Tommy Morrison and Mike Moorer. Vitali stood in front of Lewis because Lewis made him, and there is no way in hell Foreman was capable of bringing the same type of pressure Lewis brought to Vitali. He was too slow, never had that kind of reaching righthand and was still leagues slower than Lewis at that time. Im no fan of Vitali's, but his boxing skills and footwork are better than all of the fighters that Foreman had a lot of trouble with. Its a horrible stylistic matchup for old George.

As I've already said I think Lewis was slow and lumbering in 2003. I can't see any special speed or ability to apply pressure that Foreman didn't have around the time of the Cooney, Rodrigues and Holyfield fights.
You can play the videos of the fights side-by-side and see for yourself. VK and LL were looking just as prehistoric as Foreman was.

VK is a slow-footed lumbering fighter. His boxing skills and footwork are NOT better than Moorer's or Holyfield's.

[lefthook31]

The proof is in the performances. In no point in Foremans comeback did he show the ability to compete with a fighter like Vitali. The B and C level fighters were giving him hell.
Vitali is not slow and lumbering. Hes actually quite mobile and very good at establishing range against opponents, especially slow ones like Foreman.
Personally I think George looked great against Savarese. He worked his ass off in that fight, and it was the perfect type of opponent, slow stand right in front of you opponent. Any fighter with any type of movement, regardless of their skill level, gave Foreman problems.
Can you see comebacking Foreman throwing long righthands and falling in to the inside and throwing upper cuts? It would take a fight that we had never seen from Foreman, against a much more mobile cautious fighter.
Lewis was still a lot better than Foreman ever was in his comeback in my opinion.

[lefthook31]

You can see in this brief highlight video the type of movement that was giving Lewis problems, and the type of punches that Lewis needed to throw to land on Vitali. Goerge was never capable of throwing long extending punches.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BH6LvUS__M[/ame]

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by lefthook31

The proof is in the performances. In no point in Foremans comeback did he show the ability to compete with a fighter like Vitali. The B and C level fighters were giving him hell.

Not all of the B and C level opponents were giving him hell.
Rodrigues, Cooney, Coetzer, Cooper, were getting beaten up badly. Moorer was more an A level fighter. Holyfield was definitely A level.

VK has never proved himself either. He fights guys like Danny Williams, Sam Peter, Chris Arreola, Corrie Sanders, fat Kirk Johnson, Kevin Kingpin Johnson ..... they no better than the C grade fighters Foreman was whipping.

Originally Posted by lefthook31

Vitali is not slow and lumbering. Hes actually quite mobile and very good at establishing range against opponents, especially slow ones like Foreman.

VK hasn't fought anyone like Foreman. Vitali's slow but he can box on the back foot at times. But Foreman's no Arreola or Peter, those men cannot box, have no guile to them. Peter didn't even show any self-belief or heart. An old Briggs is so many grades beneath an old Foreman it's really quite shocking.
VK's given credit for beating shitty fighters, while others get condemned for the same thing.

Originally Posted by lefthook31

Personally I think George looked great against Savarese. He worked his ass off in that fight, and it was the perfect type of opponent, slow stand right in front of you opponent. Any fighter with any type of movement, regardless of their skill level, gave Foreman problems.
Can you see comebacking Foreman throwing long righthands and falling in to the inside and throwing upper cuts? It would take a fight that we had never seen from Foreman, against a much more mobile cautious fighter.
Lewis was still a lot better than Foreman ever was in his comeback in my opinion.

I can imagine Foreman finding some way of getting to a slow-footed HUGE target (who carries his left hand as low as I've seen any fighter do).

[The Kurgan]

Originally Posted by The Mongoose

Vitali beat prime Briggs into a coma...who pre-prime sodomized your hero.

?

Huh?

Is Foreman Hook a fan of Abraham Okine?

[The Mongoose]

Unforgiven, you are really off on this one. Foreman is not going to chase Vitali down, or even attempt to. Nor is he anything like any version of Lewis; better or worse. He'd plant his feet, take punches to his eyes and temples with his cross armed defense, and try to time him with his feeling jab and loaded right... which just isn't going to work against a tall, saftey first high volume puncher like Vitali. Foreman may be a step up from Saturday's version of Briggs but the strategy would be equally impotent. At best he gets in a few good body punches, but Vitali is going to tag him all night.

[lefthook31]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Not all of the B and C level opponents were giving him hell.
Rodrigues, Cooney, Coetzer, Cooper, were getting beaten up badly. Moorer was more an A level fighter. Holyfield was definitely A level.

VK has never proved himself either. He fights guys like Danny Williams, Sam Peter, Chris Arreola, Corrie Sanders, fat Kirk Johnson, Kevin Kingpin Johnson ..... they no better than the C grade fighters Foreman was whipping.



VK hasn't fought anyone like Foreman. Vitali's slow but he can box on the back foot at times. But Foreman's no Arreola or Peter, those men cannot box, have no guile to them. Peter didn't even show any self-belief or heart. An old Briggs is so many grades beneath an old Foreman it's really quite shocking.
VK's given credit for beating shitty fighters, while others get condemned for the same thing.



I can imagine Foreman finding some way of getting to a slow-footed HUGE target (who carries his left hand as low as I've seen any fighter do).

Again I would agree with you if I saw more from Foreman, but nothing suggests he could beat him. Vitali fought Lewis, thats a pretty good indication. Foreman struggled with inferior Vitali style fighters. Vitali moves, he has a good chin, he uses his reach very well. What I meant by that first comment was that Foreman struggled with B and C level movers. Foreman could hang with A level guys that stood in front of him for sure. As soon as that A level guy started moving though he was lost.
Morrison was never a mover, yet he had Foreman completely puzzled for 12 rounds by turning him in close. That fight alone should be telling enough to know that a 6'7 guy with a long reach, decent chin and a cautious style was going to give Foreman all sorts of trouble.

[Foreman Hook]

Originally Posted by The Mongoose

That's crazy talk!!! The rope a dope wouldn't work against Old Foreman, he would conserve his energy and time Ali with that perfect right cross out of nowhere. Old Foreman KO 8

TBH you have me CONVINCED in your opinion now - thanx for teaching me how Old Foreman would win VS Ali.