boxing
Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-27-2010, 10:10 PM   #241
Brickhaus
Packs the house
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Badlefthook.com
Posts: 11,157
vCash: 75
Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Meh. I don't know. I work in corporate law, and I see this kind of stuff all the time. Most corporate executives have clauses in their contracts that say they can't work in the same industry for a few years after termination. Is that a slave contract? No, because they're compensated well for it, and he has the choice whether to enter into it at the beginning. If he doesn't want to be subject to the provision, then he doesn't sign the contract.

That's what Haye did here, though I don't really agree with it. Sure, he doesn't have a great chance of ending with the belt (he always COULD just retire), but it's not like there's a better option out there anyway. If he wins, his options are fight another Klitschko for another 10 - 15 million quid, or fight joe blow for a fraction of that. Rationally, he should WANT to fight a Klitschko again after he wins, since that would by far be his best option anyway.

As for the contract finances not being "good enough", he was offered 50/50. That's BETTER than he should be expecting. He should be doing backflips over that. He signed to fight one of them (with the same rematch provisions, presumably) for about 1/4 of that, then beats a lumbering and limited giant and gets offered a gigantic raise, and still won't take the fight? Frankly, I think he's waiting for them to start showing cracks in the armour before going after them and he wouldn't sign even if he was getting the lion's share.

But just because one party is being unreasonable, it doesn't mean the other one isn't offering a good deal.
Brickhaus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 10-27-2010, 10:21 PM   #242
thesandman
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,304
vCash: 90
Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickhaus View Post
Meh. I don't know. I work in corporate law, and I see this kind of stuff all the time. Most corporate executives have clauses in their contracts that say they can't work in the same industry for a few years after termination. Is that a slave contract? No, because they're compensated well for it, and he has the choice whether to enter into it at the beginning. If he doesn't want to be subject to the provision, then he doesn't sign the contract.
That's kind of different though. That's because of the knowledge they take with etc, but I don't disagree entirely.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickhaus View Post
That's what Haye did here, though I don't really agree with it. Sure, he doesn't have a great chance of ending with the belt (he always COULD just retire), but it's not like there's a better option out there anyway. If he wins, his options are fight another Klitschko for another 10 - 15 million quid, or fight joe blow for a fraction of that. Rationally, he should WANT to fight a Klitschko again after he wins, since that would by far be his best option anyway.
Not really. He could fight a K Bro once, earn good money, but be a good chance of losing.

He could fight 2 or 3 stiffs, with little chance of losing, and end up with more money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickhaus View Post
As for the contract finances not being "good enough", he was offered 50/50. That's BETTER than he should be expecting. He should be doing backflips over that. He signed to fight one of them (with the same rematch provisions, presumably) for about 1/4 of that, then beats a lumbering and limited giant and gets offered a gigantic raise, and still won't take the fight? Frankly, I think he's waiting for them to start showing cracks in the armour before going after them and he wouldn't sign even if he was getting the lion's share.
We don't know what else is in the contract. And if Haye truly believes he brings more money to the table, why should he settle for less than that?

Belts, history in the division? We've seen that means nothing these days in boxing. (unfortunately - not what I believe, but seems to be the case).

I'm not defending Haye either. I think he signed his life away to get a crack at Valuev and is paying for it now. I've got no sympathy for him either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickhaus View Post
But just because one party is being unreasonable, it doesn't mean the other one isn't offering a good deal.
You think all the guys quoted are being unreasonable?

I think what the end result is, sadly, is that guys with no chance will take the money on offer, because it's the best offer they're going to get. Guys with more bargaining power, will tell them to take a walk, and take easier fights for the same money.

That's what's happening. Vitali's last few opponents have been appalling. Not even B grade opponents.

How much is down to the way K2 promote, and how much is down to guys not wanting to fight, I don't know. It certainly doesn't look like they're offering good money (perhaps over the odds) to attract the best fights though.
thesandman is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 10:22 PM   #243
thesandman
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,304
vCash: 90
Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickhaus View Post
Is that a slave contract? No, because they're compensated well for it, and he has the choice whether to enter into it at the beginning. If he doesn't want to be subject to the provision, then he doesn't sign the contract..
Missed this first time round.

This is basically what's happening now. Fighters are choosing not to accept the contracts on offer.

The ones that do, are either desperate or have no other options.
thesandman is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 11:00 PM   #244
lastletter26
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Badnewz, VA
Posts: 1,426
vCash: 612
Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

I feel cloud is a very good, up and coming fighter. He doesn't really reflect that amatuer petigree at times but I think he has enough to give anyone around his weight a very tough fight off of the natural attributes. Not to mention he is young and his flaws seem fixable.

His defense get's lazy at times and he doesn't react to shots. That's the only real flaw he has which can be a big one if he faces an active, accurrate puncher who can handle Clouds own power. Then we will also be able to rate that chin.

Hasn't really fought the best because the best don't like fighting the best at that weight for whatever reasons. When he does he will be a very tough. His power, speed and sharpness are good. Only thing is his discipline on Defense. A great fighter has to be offensive and defensive at the same time to be at the top level.

Cloud is very promissing IMO and time will tell how he fares against Pascal, Dawson and maybe Erdei. We will see pretty soon because I feel cloud is gonna keep stepping up his comp.
lastletter26 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 11:24 PM   #245
lzolnier
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,608
vCash: 75
Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Its no big secret - everyone by now ought to know the K bros, as nice and professional as they are, are very stingy negotiators perhaps more so than King or Golden Boy. The comment by Byrd was accurate - they try to force you into certain situations, even if you're a top contender with some leverage. They've bult up a brand, principally in Germany and want to protect it. Its their right, but it sucks when it contributes to killing fights and we have to settle for Klitchkos fighting utterly anonymous, undeserving fighters like Chisora or Sosnowski. However, I still believe Haye got a reasonable offer.
lzolnier is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 06:38 PM   #246
BoxingFanNo1
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 5,935
vCash: 2650
Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

So now Solis joins the list, some choice quotes from the article.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

“The offer we got from the Klitschko side are not what we have been expecting. In addition they don’t want to comply to any of our requests. We have made a counter offer but so far they didn’t respond to that. So I guess we’ll have to go to purse bid”

“The Klitschkos’ arrogance really ****es me off”, adds Odlanier Solis. “My promoter informed me about every step in the negotiations and it looks to me like Vitali is trying to take advantage of me. I will make him pay for that. This is not about money – it’s about respect."

“Maybe the Klitschkos think that they can get out of the fight by making ridiculously low offers. But I have to disappoint them. If money is a real problem I would even do the fight for no purse at all. Of course, only if Vitali accepts to fight for no money as well. I will not let him take advantage of me. If money is not a problem the only other explanation I can think of is that Klitschko might know that this will be his last big pay-day because I will end his career. But to be honest I don’t care about him or him motives. All I can say is that now I understand why the fight between David Haye and either Klitschko hasn’t happened so far. Until now I thought Haye was afraid. But if the Klitschkos are always as arrogant as they present themselves in our negotiations, I have to say that I understand Haye for not signing a contract. But sorry, Vitali, I am not David Haye. I will fight you anyways. You can run but you can’t hide. I will get my hands on you and become the first ever Cuban heavyweight champion of the world.”

"They are always trying to take advantage of their strong position. When it comes to the fight between Vitali and Solis they have to understand that Solis is the mandatory challenger which puts us in a strong position as well. And we don’t have to agree to all of their terms although we definitely want the fight. Anyways, we will make sure that the fight happens.”





I'm losing count now guys how many is that????
BoxingFanNo1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 07:14 PM   #247
doylexxx
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,355
vCash: 1000
Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

these are PROMOTER expenses not paying them is wrong expecially in the hurt business:

2. If Povetkin does not appear on one of the press events organized by K2, K2 will fine him the amount of at least $250,000 dollars.

3. K2 refuses to pay for relocation expenses, hotel accommodations, meals and transportation to and from the fight location, etc.

4. K2 refuses to provide health insurance for the duration of the fight and commits Povetkin to bear all of the costs of all medical expenses in treating injuries that he may receive in the fight.
doylexxx is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 07:56 PM   #248
BoxingFanNo1
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 5,935
vCash: 2650
Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Yup, and then some, and that's for a mandatory. I have a feeling it's the same scenario with Solis.
BoxingFanNo1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 09:04 PM   #249
doylexxx
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,355
vCash: 1000
Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingFanNo1 View Post
Yup, and then some, and that's for a mandatory. I have a feeling it's the same scenario with Solis.

the promoter not giving a toss about your health

basically dump an injured guy out the fire exit

unbelievable !!!
doylexxx is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 04:06 PM   #250
HENDO
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,060
vCash: 500
Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Wlad is a *****.
HENDO is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 04:43 PM   #251
madballster
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,374
vCash: 1000
Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingFanNo1 View Post
So now Solis joins the list, some choice quotes from the article.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

“The offer we got from the Klitschko side are not what we have been expecting. In addition they don’t want to comply to any of our requests. We have made a counter offer but so far they didn’t respond to that. So I guess we’ll have to go to purse bid”

“The Klitschkos’ arrogance really ****es me off”, adds Odlanier Solis. “My promoter informed me about every step in the negotiations and it looks to me like Vitali is trying to take advantage of me. I will make him pay for that. This is not about money – it’s about respect."

“Maybe the Klitschkos think that they can get out of the fight by making ridiculously low offers. But I have to disappoint them. If money is a real problem I would even do the fight for no purse at all. Of course, only if Vitali accepts to fight for no money as well. I will not let him take advantage of me. If money is not a problem the only other explanation I can think of is that Klitschko might know that this will be his last big pay-day because I will end his career. But to be honest I don’t care about him or him motives. All I can say is that now I understand why the fight between David Haye and either Klitschko hasn’t happened so far. Until now I thought Haye was afraid. But if the Klitschkos are always as arrogant as they present themselves in our negotiations, I have to say that I understand Haye for not signing a contract. But sorry, Vitali, I am not David Haye. I will fight you anyways. You can run but you can’t hide. I will get my hands on you and become the first ever Cuban heavyweight champion of the world.”

"They are always trying to take advantage of their strong position. When it comes to the fight between Vitali and Solis they have to understand that Solis is the mandatory challenger which puts us in a strong position as well. And we don’t have to agree to all of their terms although we definitely want the fight. Anyways, we will make sure that the fight happens.”





I'm losing count now guys how many is that????
Check the history of K2 vs Arena with the Vitali vs Gomez negotiations. Just like Solis Gomez was a mandatory. Arena's CEO Öner was unhappy with the terms offered by K2 and was crying foul. Bönte told him "If you don't like it, let's goto a purse bid and everyone will behappy". One day before the purse bid deadline an agreement was reached.

Fast forward to Solis. Öner once again crying foul. Bönte says "Fine, let's goto the purse bid." Now last week we hear Öner asked for the purse bid deadline to be extended because the's confident an agreement can be found.

Stop deluding yourself with the non-sense whining.

Explain to me why Lennox Lewis "only" paid a prime Shannon Briggs $1.5 million Dollars and Vitali paid the shot Briggs $1.2 million for a voluntary defense. How are the Klits greedy? Or was Lennox greedy too? Why didn't Lennox pay Briggs $4 million?
madballster is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 04:50 PM   #252
madballster
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,374
vCash: 1000
Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Quote:
Originally Posted by doylexxx View Post
the promoter not giving a toss about your health

basically dump an injured guy out the fire exit

unbelievable !!!
What type of drugs are you doing?

Tell me what keeps the fighter from going to an insurance company and getting himself a health/injury insurance. Povetkin was guaranteed a $2.2 million Dollar payday. He can't pay health insurance from that?

I am appalled how little common sense have here in the forums. Every generic contractor agreement would require the contractor to arrange a health insurance coverage for himself.
madballster is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 04:53 PM   #253
o_money
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,956
vCash: 1000
Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Yup K2 contracts are ****ing rediculous. Klitchos' are ***s. And Wlad is a huge ***** that turns into a ***** when he gets hit. Oh and they're on steriods Take a ****s test pussies
o_money is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 05:01 PM   #254
BoxingFanNo1
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 5,935
vCash: 2650
Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad*****ter View Post
Check the history of K2 vs Arena with the Vitali vs Gomez negotiations. Just like Solis Gomez was a mandatory. Arena's CEO Öner was unhappy with the terms offered by K2 and was crying foul. Bönte told him "If you don't like it, let's goto a purse bid and everyone will behappy". One day before the purse bid deadline an agreement was reached.

Fast forward to Solis. Öner once again crying foul. Bönte says "Fine, let's goto the purse bid." Now last week we hear Öner asked for the purse bid deadline to be extended because the's confident an agreement can be found.

Stop deluding yourself with the non-sense whining.

Explain to me why Lennox Lewis "only" paid a prime Shannon Briggs $1.5 million Dollars and Vitali paid the shot Briggs $1.2 million for a voluntary defense. How are the Klits greedy? Or was Lennox greedy too? Why didn't Lennox pay Briggs $4 million?
$1.5 million is $2 million in todays money. Briggs earned $500k for Vitali.

"When I called Shannon a few months ago and told him about the Vitali fight, he didn't ask me about money; he said, 'Take it.' I told him, 'It's not great money. (Cohen and Briggs say the purse is $500,000.) He said, 'I don't care. It shows you where his head is."

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

That's right, 13 years ago Briggs earned 4x what he did against Vitali. I'll also point out Lewis earned $4 million ($5.5 million today). I'm willing to bet Vitali earned at least 7-8 million.

Brilliant argument, true pat on the back stuff, I'm really deluded.

It's not just Briggs, it's the whole list. One or two boxers, no biggie, 3-4 mmmm, 5-6 definetly smell a rat, the amount I've listed without a doubt **** isn't right.
BoxingFanNo1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 05:04 PM   #255
BoxingFanNo1
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 5,935
vCash: 2650
Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Or how about you address these facts:

But even the voluntary defence contracts are below standard:
Toney earned $2.8 million vs Rahman and $1.1 million for the eliminator vs Peter yet somehow $1.5 million for a title shot vs Wlad is fair?
Tua earned $500k vs SHANE CAMERON and somehow $400k vs Klitschko is fair?
BoxingFanNo1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2015