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Old 01-08-2011, 05:23 PM   #256
madballster
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingFanNo1 View Post
$1.5 million is $2 million in todays money. Briggs earned $500k for Vitali.
Point taken about ad******g for inflation/purchasing power.

Briggs earned 750,000 EURO = approx. $1.2 million US Dollars. Still. This is the old, shot version who hasn't had a meaningful win in half a decade. Vs. the 26 year old version hyped by HBO who came off a fresh win vs. George Foreman.

How paying an old Briggs who was knocking out bums in 200 seat venues for $5,000 per nigth a decent enough $1.2 million Dollar retirement purse is a sign of greed is beyond me!

Source: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] -> "Als Schmerzensgeld erhält Briggs 750.000 Euro Kampfbörse."

You are grossly mistaken about the brother's earnings. Quoting Bild.de, the brothers net around 3 million EUROS per fight after all costs.

Source: Google translate [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] -> "Davon bekommt zunächst der kämpfende Klitschko 3 Millionen."

So let me get this straight. The brothers make $4 million per fight, just like Lennox made for the Briggs fight. It's OK for Lennox to pay his opponent $1.5 vs his $4 million earnings. But when the Klits offer Toney the same $1.5 million when they take home $4 million just like Lennox did it's a sign of greed.

Your entire argument doesn't hold the simplest arithmetic test.
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:50 PM   #257
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

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Originally Posted by mad*****ter View Post
Point taken about ad******g for inflation/purchasing power.

Briggs earned 750,000 EURO = approx. $1.2 million US Dollars. Still. This is the old, shot version who hasn't had a meaningful win in half a decade. Vs. the 26 year old version hyped by HBO who came off a fresh win vs. George Foreman.

How paying an old Briggs who was knocking out bums in 200 seat venues for $5,000 per nigth a decent enough $1.2 million Dollar retirement purse is a sign of greed is beyond me!

Source: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] -> "Als Schmerzensgeld erhält Briggs 750.000 Euro Kampfbörse."

You are grossly mistaken about the brother's earnings. Quoting Bild.de, the brothers net around 3 million EUROS per fight after all costs.

Source: Google translate [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] -> "Davon bekommt zunächst der kämpfende Klitschko 3 Millionen."

So let me get this straight. The brothers make $4 million per fight, just like Lennox made for the Briggs fight. It's OK for Lennox to pay his opponent $1.5 vs his $4 million earnings. But when the Klits offer Toney the same $1.5 million when they take home $4 million just like Lennox did it's a sign of greed.

Your entire argument doesn't hold the simplest arithmetic test.
Straight from Klitschko's own mouth.

By Ruslan Chikov

The world heavyweight champion of the WBC, Vitali Klitschko, has issued a reponse to the recent comments made by former champion Nikolai Valuev. The "Russian Giant" said Klitschko was not offering enough money to make a fight between the two of them possible. Klitschko does not give the amount, but says the amount of money received by Shannon Briggs was much less than the amount of money that was offered to Valuev.
"Valuev has made comments that there hasn't been enough money to make the fight. The amount that Briggs received for our fight, was many times less than what I presented to Nicholas. But the millions of dollars that were offered - Nicholas calls pathetic - and he uses every opportunity to avoid getting in the ring," Klitschko told URA.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (the scene of boxing)

Now, consider the dating of the article 22/10/2010, and the fact Valuev and Klitschko are arguing about the $1.5 and $1.2 million offers. This is what Vitali said Briggs recieved "Many times less".


Oops.

Last edited by BoxingFanNo1; 01-08-2011 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 01-08-2011, 06:10 PM   #258
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Conveniently you didn't address Klitschkos earnings vs what they pay their opponents compares to Lennox' earnings vs. Briggs and Briggs' purse.

It looks to me like $4 million for the belt holder and $1.5 million for the voluntary challenger was OK for Lennox to offer but it's not for the brothers
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Old 01-08-2011, 06:18 PM   #259
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Oh btw: Did you watch that Teddy Atlas video where he rips Sauerland and clarifies how Povetkin would not have "seen much" out of his $2.2 million Dollar purse from the Wlad fight? The video has been posted here on the site. Search for "Atlas".

Edit: Here's the video (don't worry, it's in English)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG6RSnZPcwk[/ame]


Doesn't that also explain why Valuev isn't willing to fight for the $2.5 million from the Klits? After Don King and Sauerland take their greedy cuts out of Valuev's payday probably not much is left.

Valuev said multiple times under the current conditions it is not worth it to fight the Klitschkos after "he pays his team and his promoters." What does that tell you? How much would Valuev get after the $2.5 million that were offered by K2? Probably as much as Povetkin would have left from his $2.2 million Dollars.

But conveniently these thoughts do not enter your mind. You blame everything on the oh-so-terrible greediness of the Klitschkos.
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Old 01-08-2011, 06:38 PM   #260
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad*****ter View Post
Conveniently you didn't address Klitschkos earnings vs what they pay their opponents compares to Lennox' earnings vs. Briggs and Briggs' purse.

It looks to me like $4 million for the belt holder and $1.5 million for the voluntary challenger was OK for Lennox to offer but it's not for the brothers
Considering I've provided 2 sources the first from Briggs team saying he was getting $500k, the second from Vitali saying Briggs recieved much less than the $1.5/1.2 million offered to Valuev (therefore has to be much less than the $1.2 million you sourced) I think it's safe to say your source is wrong. Briggs got $500k.

Now, lets do some math.

Briggs earned $500,000 = 370,000 Euros.
Vitali earned 3 million euros.
Total pot 3,370,000 euros.

Biggs recieved 11% of the total pot.
Vitali recieved 89%.

Lewis - Briggs.

Lewis earned $4 million.
Briggs earned $1.5 million.
Total pot 5.5 million.

Briggs recieved 28%
Lewis recieved 72%

That means K2 undercut Briggs fee by 17% compared to Lewis.

Man you should have entered this thread ages ago, you're backing my argument up brilliantly.
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Old 01-08-2011, 06:45 PM   #261
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad*****ter View Post
Conveniently you didn't address Klitschkos earnings vs what they pay their opponents compares to Lennox' earnings vs. Briggs and Briggs' purse.

It looks to me like $4 million for the belt holder and $1.5 million for the voluntary challenger was OK for Lennox to offer but it's not for the brothers
Quote:
Originally Posted by mad*****ter View Post
Oh btw: Did you watch that Teddy Atlas video where he rips Sauerland and clarifies how Povetkin would not have "seen much" out of his $2.2 million Dollar purse from the Wlad fight? The video has been posted here on the site. Search for "Atlas".

Edit: Here's the video (don't worry, it's in English)

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


Doesn't that also explain why Valuev isn't willing to fight for the $2.5 million from the Klits? After Don King and Sauerland take their greedy cuts out of Valuev's payday probably not much is left.

Valuev said multiple times under the current conditions it is not worth it to fight the Klitschkos after "he pays his team and his promoters." What does that tell you? How much would Valuev get after the $2.5 million that were offered by K2? Probably as much as Povetkin would have left from his $2.2 million Dollars.

But conveniently these thoughts do not enter your mind. You blame everything on the oh-so-terrible greediness of the Klitschkos.
You're an idiot. Valuev refused Vitali's offer because he was a champ, just like Vitali, and a big draw in Germany on his own. He knew how much the fight was worth and how little of the pie he was being offered.

The Klits offered big-draw-champion Valuev similar money as they offered Povetkin. If you say that makes sense, you're either a liar or an idiot.
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Old 01-08-2011, 07:18 PM   #262
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

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Originally Posted by BoxingFanNo1 View Post
I think it's safe to say your source is wrong. Briggs got $500k.
There's dozens of German newspapers saying otherwise, I've posted one of them. There's a hand full of otheres confirming the exact same figure I quoted you, just google. Just because the data I found contradicts your thesis it must be wrong eh? It's hard to admit you are wrong, like I had to admit I overlooked the inflation adjusted value of a purse paid 12 years ago?

Plus you have no idea what your $500k figure entails. Is that net of taxes? Is that net of Briggs expenses such as medical insurance, sparring partners, trainer, training camp?

$1.2 million gross and adjusted for taxes, trainer, sparring partners, insurance could quickly yield 500k couldn't it? If what *YOU* are claiming was right then how much would be left of Briggs' alleged 500k gross after taxes, medical insurance, sparring partners, trainer, training camp? 200k?

If these opponents think they will be paid under their market price then why don't they

a) look for other fights that pay them more, e.g. the opponents could goto Haye and receive much better offers because Haye certainly isn't as greedy as the evil Klitschkos
b) become mandatory challengers and let the fights goto a purse bid that reveals their true market value

Why aren't these people (Toney, Rahman, Briggs etc. etc.) goto Haye and see what chump change he will offer them? Including a sweet nice 4-option slave contract courtesey of Sauerland?

Or don't these lazy ****s become mandatory challengers if they think they're worth more?

Sorry, I am not convinced. Too much bias on your end, too little objectivity. We're not talking about ATG rankings here where subjectivity is a factor, we're talking about basic common sense. I tried to add a little of my own information that I found on the net, take it with a grain of salt but I guess I can't add much value here.
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Old 01-08-2011, 07:46 PM   #263
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

The Klitschko's have the right to demand massive splits of fight purses.

And of course everyone will ***** about the Klitschko contracts, they have to have something to feed their fans when they pull out of the fight.
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:08 PM   #264
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad*****ter View Post
There's dozens of German newspapers saying otherwise, I've posted one of them. There's a hand full of otheres confirming the exact same figure I quoted you, just google. Just because the data I found contradicts your thesis it must be wrong eh? It's hard to admit you are wrong, like I had to admit I overlooked the inflation adjusted value of a purse paid 12 years ago?

Plus you have no idea what your $500k figure entails. Is that net of taxes? Is that net of Briggs expenses such as medical insurance, sparring partners, trainer, training camp?

$1.2 million gross and adjusted for taxes, trainer, sparring partners, insurance could quickly yield 500k couldn't it? If what *YOU* are claiming was right then how much would be left of Briggs' alleged 500k gross after taxes, medical insurance, sparring partners, trainer, training camp? 200k?

If these opponents think they will be paid under their market price then why don't they

a) look for other fights that pay them more, e.g. the opponents could goto Haye and receive much better offers because Haye certainly isn't as greedy as the evil Klitschkos
b) become mandatory challengers and let the fights goto a purse bid that reveals their true market value

Why aren't these people (Toney, Rahman, Briggs etc. etc.) goto Haye and see what chump change he will offer them? Including a sweet nice 4-option slave contract courtesey of Sauerland?

Or don't these lazy ****s become mandatory challengers if they think they're worth more?

Sorry, I am not convinced. Too much bias on your end, too little objectivity. We're not talking about ATG rankings here where subjectivity is a factor, we're talking about basic common sense. I tried to add a little of my own information that I found on the net, take it with a grain of salt but I guess I can't add much value here.
Yes your sources is wrong. "dozens of papers saying otherwise", what's their source? Where did that come from, Vitali, Boete? Who? Mine have come straight from Vitali and Briggs own mouths/camps, what about yours?

With regards to what the figure entails it's obviously topline, what a stupid comment. Why the hell would Briggs camp contact Briggs with an adjusted figure, the man even says "it's not a lot of money". Vitali said Briggs accepted "many times less" than Valuev was offered. Since we know for a fact Valuev was offered $1.5 then $1.2 million it's very safe to assume Briggs was offered $500k since being offered $1.2 million does not fit with Vitalis very own statement and is indeed the top line.

As for what opponents should do - "look for other fights that pay them more", well that's what they are doing. Hence no Dimitrenko, Tua, Toney, Valuev, Haye, Adamek, Mormeck or Povetkin on their records. I'd also point out even some who have fought them still have complaints. It's also about risk reward, why the hell should Tua fight Klitschko for $400k when he earned $500k fighting Shane Cameron?

I've already displayed throughout this thread that "these lazy ****s" even when they get to a mandatory position still have problems, keep up.

Too much bias on my end? How? I argue the facts as I see them.

I posed this question for you last page, you convienently skipped it.

But even the voluntary defence contracts are below standard:
Toney earned $2.8 million vs Rahman and $1.1 million for the eliminator vs Peter yet somehow $1.5 million for a title shot vs Wlad is fair?
Tua earned $500k vs SHANE CAMERON and somehow $400k vs Klitschko is fair?

If the total of this thread can't convince you, if the material from numerous sources on the very first post can't convince you nothing will. Carry on believing that a dozen boxers are wrong, lying, have an agenda and K2 are 100% legit.

Still, I'd really like you to attempt to justify the above figures for Toney and Tua, no ones been able too yet, and it adds a lot of merit to my points.
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:18 PM   #265
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

All this thread points to is that K2 are just shrewd business men.

And didn't allow themselves to be bullied by Saudnerlands and HBO / Goldenboy and like.

Thats all, not that they were afraid of Tua and Toney...

You can do that when your the legitimate 1-2 HW boxers of the world and not a blow up big mouth CW, thats sold is ass to get a paper belt via a gift decision.
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:28 PM   #266
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

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Originally Posted by timeout View Post
All this thread points to is that K2 are just shrewd business men.

And didn't allow themselves to be bullied by Saudnerlands and HBO / Goldenboy and like.

Thats all, not that they were afraid of Tua and Toney...

You can do that when your the legitimate 1-2 HW boxers of the world and not a blow up big mouth CW, thats sold is ass to get a paper belt via a gift decision.
First off, what's this - "Thats all, not that they were afraid of Tua and Toney..."
Where the hell have I implyed they were afriad, have you even read this thread? Please do before jumping to conclusions, I don't believe K2 are afraid of anyone.

Secondly, this thread isn't about Haye, don't pollute this thread with that ****, there's about 50 others out there just now.

Finally they're not shrewd businessmen, infact what I've provided points to the opposite, they're dictators who want it all their own way, and if they don't get it they'll look for the next guy who will accept a cheap handout or 3 fight contract with 1000 stipulations.

At some point I'm going to add to this thread total pot %s from previous HW championship fights and compare it to K2. I have a feeling just like the 89% vs Briggs it's going to be lopsided in favour of K2.
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:42 PM   #267
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

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Originally Posted by BoxingFanNo1 View Post
Or how about you address these facts:

But even the voluntary defence contracts are below standard:
Toney earned $2.8 million vs Rahman and $1.1 million for the eliminator vs Peter yet somehow $1.5 million for a title shot vs Wlad is fair?
Tua earned $500k vs SHANE CAMERON and somehow $400k vs Klitschko is fair?
Toney and Tua will regret their decision to decline later when they realize that it was their last shot for the title.

Maximize the profit is business one on one. And what do you care what's 'fair' for boxers you don't even know? Cameron got less than 50K against Tua but I don't see you crying for his purse. Is under 10% 'fair'? Audley got million (?) and Haye 8M (?). It's 13% for Audley. Is that 'fair'? Lennox made god knows how much but Briggs and Rahman 1,5M. Is that 'fair'?

Only reason for your posts is that you try to grasp to every straw to convince as many as possible that Klitschkos are evil but who are you kidding? Only few dozen Haye and Klitschko fans even read these threads and every single one has made their minds about their favorite fighters. If you're happy that boy_racer and other one line repliers write "I'm with you 100%. They are greedy" you wasted your time; they already though so.
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:45 PM   #268
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

The Klitchsko's try their damn hardest to make sure they win the fight before a punch is even thrown. Financial humiliation is part of their boxing armory.
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:05 PM   #269
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

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Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
Toney and Tua will regret their decision to decline later when they realize that it was their last shot for the title.

Maximize the profit is business one on one. And what do you care what's 'fair' for boxers you don't even know? Cameron got less than 50K against Tua but I don't see you crying for his purse. Is under 10% 'fair'? Audley got million (?) and Haye 8M (?). It's 13% for Audley. Is that 'fair'? Lennox made god knows how much but Briggs and Rahman 1,5M. Is that 'fair'?

Only reason for your posts is that you try to grasp to every straw to convince as many as possible that Klitschkos are evil but who are you kidding? Only few dozen Haye and Klitschko fans even read these threads and every single one has made their minds about their favorite fighters. If you're happy that boy_racer and other one line repliers write "I'm with you 100%. They are greedy" you wasted your time; they already though so.
Klitschko's are evil is my motive? Bull****, here's why.

Did Briggs and Rahman complain? I challenge you to bring evidence of their discontentment with Lewis's contracts. Did Harrison complain? Did Cameron complain? No? Then I couldn't care less, irrellevent to this thread. I challenge you to supply evidence from fighters who were unhappy with terms/pay with Lennox.

This isn't just about pay, follow the thread, this is also about options and clauses in contracts.
Infact all you did was bring a list of fighters who didn't complain into a thread about fighters who complain........
If you want to do that we'll be here for weeks, I know thousands of fighters who got paid little/**** contracts and never complained.

Don King was a ******* yes? One of the worst rip off promoters ever yes?Bring this many complaints from heavyweight boxers (a ****load more than just 2) that King managed over a 8 year period (same as Klitschkos) if you can.

I would also say there's plenty of people who never knew the extent of it and it's this thread which has opened their eyes so to assume people already have their minds made up is rather insulting to the time and effort I've put into this debate.
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:19 PM   #270
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

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The Klitchsko's try their damn hardest to make sure they win the fight before a punch is even thrown. Financial humiliation is part of their boxing armory
Has it looked like they need such weird mind games to win their fights? And do you really believe that professional fighter think when bell sounds about their purse? Would've Briggs done any better with 2 millions in his pocket?
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