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Old 01-08-2011, 08:20 PM   #271
Jack
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Quote:
Originally Posted by timeout View Post
All this thread points to is that K2 are just shrewd business men.
Their negotiating has cost us some good fights. Tua? Toney? Valuev? Adamek? Lewis?

All these are fights the fans wanted to see. Yet we didn't get them.

It's not shrewd, it's constantly ****ing the fans over so they can fight the likes of Sosnowski, Chisora, Rahman and so on. It's bullshit. Even recently, we've seen Haye accept 50/50, when he brings far more than that and if he didn't accept 50/50, they wouldn't have got as far as they did.

Just pure greed. I can understand it from their perspective but why would you or any other fan defend it? You're the ones losing out.
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:23 PM   #272
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Overkill, Tua/Cameron was 50/50. Cameron didn't get $50,000 but $500,000 just like Tua did.
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:25 PM   #273
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

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Overkill, Tua/Cameron was 50/50. Cameron didn't get $50,000 but $500,000 just like Tua did.
You're right. I believed some previous poster.
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:44 PM   #274
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

It's cool, mate.

...I need to add some hate here...

...No way did Tua deserve less against Cameron, than against Klitschko! ****ing thieving pricks!
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Old 01-08-2011, 10:12 PM   #275
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

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Originally Posted by BoxingFanNo1 View Post
Did Briggs and Rahman complain? I challenge you to bring evidence of their discontentment with Lewis's contracts. Did Harrison complain? Did Cameron complain? No? Then I couldn't care less, irrellevent to this thread. I challenge you to supply evidence from fighters who were unhappy with terms/pay with Lennox.
I really don't know or even care, to be honest. I'm not interested on whiners who earn many times more in few months than average Joe yearly.

Quote:
This isn't just about pay, follow the thread, this is also about options and clauses in contracts.
Infact all you did was bring a list of fighters who didn't complain into a thread about fighters who complain........
If you want to do that we'll be here for weeks, I know thousands of fighters who got paid little/shit contracts and never complained.
So fighters has started to complain but it's not only Klitschko opponents..

Few examples:

Marquez prized him self out of Pacquiao 3.

Berto complains about the money all the time.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
-.-
Paul Briggs has accused WBC light-heavyweight champion Tomasz
Adamek of demanding ridiculous amounts of money for a world title re-match.
-.-

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-.-
"The Martinez-Cotto discussions are dead because Bob doesn't want to do any kind of co-promotion no matter what the split," DiBella said.

DiBella said Arum offered him $2.5 million against an upside of the potential pay-per-view profits. DiBella declined and said he countered by offering to buy out Arum for $5 million against an upside of pay-per-view profits.

"Bob said no, so pretty much that's the end of the discussion. There's nothing more to discuss," DiBella said.
-.-

Those guys are actual draws compared to Klitschko opponents.

I don't remember how much they offered to Valuev but in my understanding when Haye pulled out in 2009 Valuev was the first choice but he declined and Ruslan stepped in to that voluntary fight. Maybe you know how much he made..?

When Tua was possible opponent I hoped that they price him in but would've bigger money got Tua to enter? I don't know but I doubt it. Current Tua against Wlad might be a career ender for iron chinned David, I'm afraid. And doesn't he have already some sort of deal with Maori TV?

Toney is a guy that shouldn't be even considered against K2 or Haye.

Many guys who complain and don't sign might very well feel under payed but there's also the possibility of neat way of backing out of the beating by saying that the money is not good enough.

Povetkin definitely can't say that the money was too low.

Adamek accepted the deal in record time and I guess he'll get paid very well.

I don't like those 1+1+1 rematch clauses at all but 1+1 is definitely usual and that's what got Lennox to rematch with Rahman which would've never happened without it. Haye had at least the same contracted against Harrison.

But since neither bro has never used rematch clause it's are pretty much irrelevant issue.

Who else were complaining? (I'm dead tired, my memory starts to shut down)

Quote:
Don King was a bastard yes? One of the worst rip off promoters ever yes?Bring this many complaints from heavyweight boxers (a shitload more than just 2) that King managed over a 8 year period (same as Klitschkos) if you can.
They were all under King's promotion and money was better back in those days? + Klitschkos don't come near what guys made in 90'es. Or even 70'es. (inflation rate)

Quote:
I would also say there's plenty of people who never knew the extent of it and it's this thread which has opened their eyes so to assume people already have their minds made up is rather insulting to the time and effort I've put into this debate.
Let's say that you converted few people to believing that the offers should/could be better but soon somebody points out new points of views and you as known, full time Klitschko critic also questions your motives even if they are legit.

(You don't write like Hendo (God I hope you're not him..) but same thing will happen to you if you just keep bashing brothers. You won't be taken seriously after posters see multiple threads on main page from you with nothing good to say about them.)

Bottom line: Klitschkos has fought top guys their entire careers and that's what matter in the end for boxing fans. Valuev and Haye are the only ones that they've yet to fight and I believe that eventually both guys are in the ring with a Klitschko.

Now I'll hit the shower and bed. I'll reply tomorrow, if I remember.

Later.
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:48 AM   #276
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
I really don't know or even care, to be honest. I'm not interested on whiners who earn many times more in few months than average Joe yearly.
When it's a blocker for great fights in the sport I love I care.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
So fighters has started to complain but it's not only Klitschko opponents..

Few examples:

Marquez prized him self out of Pacquiao 3.

Berto complains about the money all the time.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
-.-
Paul Briggs has accused WBC light-heavyweight champion Tomasz
Adamek of demanding ridiculous amounts of money for a world title re-match.
-.-

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
-.-
"The Martinez-Cotto discussions are dead because Bob doesn't want to do any kind of co-promotion no matter what the split," DiBella said.

DiBella said Arum offered him $2.5 million against an upside of the potential pay-per-view profits. DiBella declined and said he countered by offering to buy out Arum for $5 million against an upside of pay-per-view profits.

"Bob said no, so pretty much that's the end of the discussion. There's nothing more to discuss," DiBella said.
-.-

Those guys are actual draws compared to Klitschko opponents.
I understand that fighters complain and I'm not condoning it but:

Those guys aren't under one promotional umberella.
Marquez was asking for more than he's ever earned, a ridiculous amount.
Berto, Briggs aren't bigger draws compared to some of the guys I've listed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
I don't remember how much they offered to Valuev but in my understanding when Haye pulled out in 2009 Valuev was the first choice but he declined and Ruslan stepped in to that voluntary fight. Maybe you know how much he made..?
No idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
When Tua was possible opponent I hoped that they price him in but would've bigger money got Tua to enter? I don't know but I doubt it. Current Tua against Wlad might be a career ender for iron chinned David, I'm afraid. And doesn't he have already some sort of deal with Maori TV?
Tua has never backed away from anyone, the man's a warrior, I believe he'd fight the Klitschkos for the right money.

Kushner:
"The individual I was dealing with took me to task because I hadn't rung him back after the initial approach," Kushner said to the New Zealand Herald. "I said I hadn't called him back because we had nothing to talk about. If you are looking for $2 million - and these figures are hypothetical, so I can make the point - and someone offers you $400,000, then there is no room for negotiation as opposed to if they offer you $1.5 million."

To offer Tua $400k for a title shot when he earned $500k against Cameron is insulting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
Toney is a guy that shouldn't be even considered against K2 or Haye.
And yet he was not only considered by K2 but offered $1.5 million. He earned $2.8 million vs Rahman in a nothing fight yet Klitschkos offer $1.5 million for a title shot the very next fight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
Many guys who complain and don't sign might very well feel under payed but there's also the possibility of neat way of backing out of the beating by saying that the money is not good enough.
Not all are complaining about money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
Povetkin definitely can't say that the money was too low.
Of course not, he was a mandatory, K2 have no option but to pay him 30% as laid down by mandatory rules. Povetkins people complained about terms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
Adamek accepted the deal in record time and I guess he'll get paid very well.
It's not signed yet. Also I'm willing to bet negotiations have been ongoing for for quite some time, similar to Haye negotiating at the same time with K2 and King for Valuev. He gets very well paid and is accepting because it's reportedly in Poland, all make negotiations easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
I don't like those 1+1+1 rematch clauses at all but 1+1 is definitely usual and that's what got Lennox to rematch with Rahman which would've never happened without it. Haye had at least the same contracted against Harrison.
Rematch clauses are standard, I have no problem with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
But since neither bro has never used rematch clause it's are pretty much irrelevant issue.
It's completely rellevant, these contracts lock fighters down.
Chris Byrd: It wasn’t for me to be WBO champion at that time, so of course, from the fight with Vitali to Wladimir there was so much negotiating that was going on that was terrible. It wasn’t in my favor and they forced me to fight Wladimir in my very next fight. It wasn’t really deserved, I don’t think and I waited. He had two fights and an exhibition in that whole time. They wouldn’t allow me to have an exhibition or do nothing. I mean, he had an exhibition like three weeks before we fought and I’m like, ‘This is crazy’. But the Germans were the lead promoters and that’s their fighter, and when you understand what goes on, like I said with the business side and the business decisions, which favors the Germans so I was told I still have to fight. I go in and fight, he beat me really bad—I mean it was bad. More power to him.”[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
Who else were complaining? (I'm dead tired, my memory starts to shut down)
Just check the first post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
They were all under King's promotion and money was better back in those days? + Klitschkos don't come near what guys made in 90'es. Or even 70'es. (inflation rate)
King negotiated plenty of times with other promotions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
Let's say that you converted few people to believing that the offers should/could be better but soon somebody points out new points of views and you as known, full time Klitschko critic also questions your motives even if they are legit.
I'm not here to convert, just a good debate, I think their negotiation skills leave a lot to be desired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
(You don't write like Hendo (God I hope you're not him..) but same thing will happen to you if you just keep bashing brothers. You won't be taken seriously after posters see multiple threads on main page from you with nothing good to say about them.)
Read this thread through and you'll see I'm not a Klitschko basher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overhill View Post
Bottom line: Klitschkos has fought top guys their entire careers and that's what matter in the end for boxing fans. Valuev and Haye are the only ones that they've yet to fight and I believe that eventually both guys are in the ring with a Klitschko.

Now I'll hit the shower and bed. I'll reply tomorrow, if I remember.

Later.
K2 fight the top guys willing to fight them, there's a lot that haven't. Remember, this is only the ones we've heard about, I'm pretty sure there will be others who haven't/couldn't make an issue of it.

As for Haye-Klitschko, we can only hope.
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:18 PM   #277
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

people can not argue with the amount of opponents that all say the same things and give detials and recurring clauses that klitshkos use.

this is disprespctful to us the fans.

to the sport.

to thier opponents,who after all,put thier lives on the line in that ring,and put money in the pockets of k bros,and allowing them to fight by being thier opponent.

the evidence is indisputable.Klitschkos are a disrgrace to the sport.

as if it wasnt bad enough that they are boring as hell.

they screw people and scare off the big and good fights.

people will look back at k bros records,and see no good names there,they wont say o he fought that great heavyweight when he was in his prime,they will see the names and be like "who?",that bum? that washed up guy!.

and they will go and watch the klitschko fights,and say,damn their so boring,there fighting so badly,and to consider their size,hieght,reach power,and they still dont wana mix it up and knock people out.
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:25 PM   #278
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Not all complain K2 contracts;

Ziggy Rozalski said - "All of the conditions have been accepted by both parties. A contract was also signed by Wladimir. It was just a matter of determining a specific date in September, but this is the case with German TV and HBO. We signed a very favorable contract with the best heavyweight fighter in the world. Tomasz has once again shown he is able to acquire things that others can only dream of."
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:49 PM   #279
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

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Not all complain K2 contracts;

Ziggy Rozalski said - "All of the conditions have been accepted by both parties. A contract was also signed by Wladimir. It was just a matter of determining a specific date in September, but this is the case with German TV and HBO. We signed a very favorable contract with the best heavyweight fighter in the world. Tomasz has once again shown he is able to acquire things that others can only dream of."
Well I've never claimed that every fighter complains, just that they're hard to negotiate with.

Regarding Adamek of course they were going to give him a good contract.
First off who else is out there? Add to this the fact It's in Poland, infact it wouldn't surprise me if that was one of Adameks conditions.
After 2 weeks of negotiations Duva even said "It looks like we've ironed out our differences", so obviously there was an offer, counter offer and so on. They negotiated themselves into a position they were happy with.

Their's a quote on the front page where Adamek himself says something along the lines of "If K2 want to think about fighting me they have to make a good offer".

Good on Adamek for getting the deal done.
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Old 11-08-2011, 05:43 AM   #280
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So now Fury join the list

“The thing is with the Klitschkos, yeah, it’s all their way or no way. They want to give me peanuts to fight, them, yeah, they want it in Germany, they want options on me. They want everything — they want it all their own way. So why would I do that?

“It’s just senseless, isn’t it? To fight for the world heavyweight title, you want to be financially secure, plus, you want things to be at least half level on the playing field. You don’t the playing field to be like a 90 to 10 percent their way.

“The thing about the Klitschkos is, they know they’ve got the power to negotiate everything their own way because they’re the heavyweight champions and I’m a challenger, yeah?

“Let me tell you this whole thing, I’d fight the Klitschkos at the drop of a hat. No problem. The guys are 40 and 37 [actually Wladimir is 35], I’m 23, and I’m a hungry lion, these guys can’t live with me, because I’m too fresh. And I’m bigger than them and taller, and am as aggressive as them. So when it comes down to fighting, that’s not a problem, that’s the easy part. Boxing, fighting in the ring on the night is the easy part. The hard part is getting it sorted, and prepared, for all the fights. And when it comes to fighting, there is no one who can outfight me. It’s just one of them things. I’d fight them in the morning. But, at the minute, it doesn’t make any financial sense, because they’re offering peanuts! So if they want to offer peanuts, they’re going to get the monkeys.”



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Old 11-08-2011, 06:12 AM   #281
Evian McGirt
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

If a contender were to box his way to a mandatory title shot wouldn't that curb these problems?

If a title fight is mandatory then if you don't like the terms offered can't you then just let it go to purse bids and get a fairer shake?

Can you demand rematch/option clauses on a purse bid? And doesn't purse bid guarantee 25% as challenger?

I'm not upto speed on contracts etc but I thought the above was true?
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Old 11-08-2011, 06:25 AM   #282
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

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If a contender were to box his way to a mandatory title shot wouldn't that curb these problems?
Fury is pretty far from a mandatory shot. Plus if you're going to offer a fighter a shot who's camp have already said he's not ready then you're going to have to offer a premium.

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Originally Posted by Evian McGirt View Post
If a title fight is mandatory then if you don't like the terms offered can't you then just let it go to purse bids and get a fairer shake?
K2 would win the purse bids and the fight would still be on their terms, any contract problems would still be there.

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Originally Posted by Evian McGirt View Post
Can you demand rematch/option clauses on a purse bid? And doesn't purse bid guarantee 25% as challenger?
If you win the purse bid yes, but contract disputes will still exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evian McGirt View Post
I'm not upto speed on contracts etc but I thought the above was true?
Like I said if you want to face a fighter who's camp have said they're not ready then you have to pay good ££ and offer terms that are agreeable to both parties.
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:34 AM   #283
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

The Klitschkos are the Champs!

Wladimir was Byrd´s mandatory but he paid Byrd more than 4 Million Dollars to fight him in germany, because Byrd was the Champ!!

It is unbelievable that contenders wants money money.

If they are so confident in winnig, why is money the biggest issue!

The Champ earns the money.

Wlad vs. Haye was 50:50 because Haye brought "something to the table".

I am tired to read this shit from the so called contenders.

Povetkin was Wlad´s mandatory in 2008 and K2 make the biggest bid so Povetkin would get more than 3 Million Dollars but he does not fight Wlad in 2008. So anybody of this so called contenders should close the mouth.
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:37 AM   #284
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

Fury can easily try to become mandatory and get his 25% or 33% cut. He could just do that and not have to worry about bad contracts. Easy peasy, isn't it?

Oh wait, Fury is just too lazy and too damn crappy a boxer to even become mandatory anywhere.

Know what. I just called the K brothers. Asked them what they'd offer me for a world title shot. They said $50,000. I said "What are you kidding me??? I decline!"

What a terrible low-ball offer. I think fighting for the world title is worth a little more! Why do the K brothers low-ball me like that?!?!?!?
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Old 11-08-2011, 03:14 PM   #285
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Default Re: K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

K2 or some other promoters should sign this guy Bogdan Dinu a very talented heavyweight prospect that fights rarely cause he dont has a promoter and a gym.He is 6-0 with 3 Ko's.
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His last match-up
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjTsBXDGxd8[/ame]

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