K2 and the contracts offered to various fighters......

[Escopeta]

Originally Posted by BoxingFanNo1

Isn't that the same interview where Mormeck states:

"I gave him a counter proposal but he did not accept it because he thought I was being too greedy"

yep he wants no career high payday but his retirement pension like Haye or Valuev. such things have nothing to do with slave contracts since these guys dont even think about actually winning the fight.

[BoxingFanNo1]

Originally Posted by rayhogan

Boxingfan1 is really retarded to say the least. Lesson here moron. Most of those fighters haven't really proving they are very good in the heavyweight division lol. Lewis is the only one that is proving he's a legend. If all this stuff about slave excuse contracts then fighters like Barrett, Sanders, Peter, Williams, Johnson, Hide, Donald, Chambers, Rahman and way way way way more fighters that both Klits face wouldn't even face them but i guess they didn't think it was a slave contracts. Sure Bryd did but what has he done before he fought Vitali? If i read right didn't Lewis said that Klits former promoter lied to them? How come Brewster didn't fought Vitali after he ko Wlad? hmmmm weird.

You're powers of debate are fucking useless as always.
Seriously, compare the names you just put up to the 11 I put up.

Oh and how do you know they didn't have a problem? Did you even read the Chris Byrd link? Obviously not, if you can't be arsed reading my input just fuck off.

[rushman]

Originally Posted by BoxingFanNo1

Chisora's odds are irrelevant. He should only have to face Wlad in a rematch and if he wins that have a fight of his choosing, an easy payday, on his terms, and it should be Vitali who works his way into a mandatory shot if he wants to unify. As it stands Chisora is dictated to for 3 fights even if he's the Heavyweight Champion. That means less £ than he should be entitled to, forced to continue fighting in Germany and a fight attached to a fighter disconected from Wlad, that's fucking crazy.

The odds are entirely relevant. Only people who are bad at maths or who get suckered by dodgy statistics think otherwise.

If it is never going to happen, then what is the point of bitching about it?

So, I ask you again. What do you think the odds are of Chisora beating Wlad twice?

[BoxingFanNo1]

Originally Posted by Jack

BoxingFan, Briggs was always very critical of the contracts offered whilst champion too.

Cheers Jack

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

GM: You were originally going to challenge the IBF Champion, Wladimir Klitschko. Why did that fight fall apart?
Shelly Finkel and Wladimir Klitschko @$#@$#ed me. In my opinion, Shelly Finkel is a scumbag, and it’s guys like him that ruin boxing. People always talk about Don King and he gets the bad publicity, but what about guys like Finkel and all of these other promoters and so called managers, that don’t get the bad publicity. Don gets the bad press because he is a black promoter and is the most successful, but these guys are then thousand times worse than Don King.

GM: Do you think that Wladimir Klitschko avoids the bigger punchers because of his questionable chin?

Yeah. He has a china-chin and he knows it, and he stays away from guys that can punch. He’s an excellent boxer. He’s a terrific offensive fighter, but defensively and mentally, he’s not there. He’s not as mentally tough as even his brother, and he avoided me. They led me to believe for months that the fight was going to happen. I turned down three championship fights and possibly two HBO dates that were offered to me to fight Wladimir. The contract that they sent me to fight Wlad was so thick and had so much red tape that it would have put me into slavery. It was basically given to me that way just so I would have so much to go through, in my opinion, so they could find out who won between Rahman and Maskaev.

[speck]

Rushman is methodically ruining the British sand castles.
Well done, man. I followed your wiki links and found a lot of interesting material there and along the cross-links to digest over time.

[Boxed Ears]

Finally SNV is vindicated!

[BoxingFanNo1]

Originally Posted by rushman

The odds are entirely relevant. Only people who are bad at maths or who get suckered by dodgy statistics think otherwise.

If it is never going to happen, then what is the point of bitching about it?

So, I ask you again. What do you think the odds are of Chisora beating Wlad twice?

Are you really that dumb? What about Haye? His odds are far higher, use him as an example since he was offered pretty much the same deal.

Hayes chances of beating Wlad twice...mm..... 5-10%? Long odds but stranger things have happened.

But you're completely missing the point, the Klitschko's want to keep it inhouse and keep the $$ rolling in. Vitali should have nothing to do with Wlads title reign unless he's the IBF/WBO No.1 mandatory and even in that case if Wlad loses his rematch the belt holder can have 1-2 voluntary defences in the year leading upto Vitali.

Odds don't matter shit, he shouldn't be involved in the first place and how the governing bodies allow contracts like that are beyond me.....

[Jack]

People shouldn't excuse this. I know the usual response is "they would have a career high payday" but it doesn't make the deal fair. Plenty of guys who challenge for a title are given their career high payday but it's still a fair deal. I don't know of ANY fighters who have been associated with low balling so often and what about these three fight deals? Has there ever been a more unfair deal? Specifically, I have never, ever heard of a more unfair deal in all of boxing, than the one David Haye actually accepted.

The people defending them: Can you name any boxer who low balled so many fighters? And can you give specific examples of more unfair, biased deals than the ones we know the Klitschko's have offered?

When the Klitschko's talk about having every title in the family, maybe this is why? Maybe they want to create a monopoly on the division where they can dictate how much a fighter earns, if they want a shot. They know that if a fighter wants to be a world champion, they have to go through both Klitschko's or Haye, so if they get Haye out of the equation, they can offer guys awful money and, if they want a title shot, they have to accept. They can insist on poor money and a four fight deal, where both brothers must be fought twice and what can the opponent say? Nothing.

[rushman]

Originally Posted by BoxingFanNo1

Are you really that dumb? What about Haye? His odds are far higher, use him as an example since he was offered pretty much the same deal.

Hayes chances of beating Wlad twice...mm..... 5-10%? Long odds but stranger things have happened.

But you're completely missing the point, the Klitschko's want to keep it inhouse and keep the $$ rolling in. Vitali should have nothing to do with Wlads title reign unless he's the IBF/WBO No.1 mandatory and even in that case if Wlad loses his rematch the belt holder can have 1-2 voluntary defences in the year leading upto Vitali.

Odds don't matter shit, he shouldn't be involved in the first place and how the governing bodies allow contracts like that are beyond me.....

So please, I ask a third time. What is your estimation of the odds for Chisora beating Wlad twice?

It's an easy question.

BTW, I estimate Hayes chances of being closer to 1 in 200. Slightly less than 10% per fight.

[BoxingFanNo1]

Originally Posted by rushman

So please, I ask a third time. What is your estimation of the odds for Chisora beating Wlad twice?

It's an easy question.

1000-1.

As you reply to this tell me, why did they tell Chisora to keep quiet about the terms?

[BoxingFanNo1]

Pick this up later.

[Double Jay]

Let me put it this way: get a MANDATORY shot and you'll get "fair money".

[speck]

Originally Posted by Double Jay

Let me put it this way: get a MANDATORY shot and you'll get "fair money".

Even that didn't make Povetkin step in the ring with Wlad.... However, that guy is still on BoxingFan's "evidence" list

[rushman]

Originally Posted by BoxingFanNo1

1000-1.

As you reply to this tell me, why did they tell Chisora to keep quiet about the terms?

Firstly I have no idea why Chisora was told to keep quiet about the terms of his contract. My understanding is that it is usually a condition of contracts that you can't make the terms public.
However, this rule seems to be breachable in ways that I don't understand. For example, the Klit's said that they offered Haye 50-50 and no options. Can they disclose that because it is not a contract yet? Or why can they disclose this yet Haye can't disclose what he says the real contract is?

Phrasing it like "He was told to keep it quiet" makes it seem sinister - like there is something to hide. But if that is the usual understanding for contracts, then it is a total non-issue.
Given how little we know about boxing contracts, I assume that it is the norm for non-disclosure to be a condition. I suspect that Chisora may have even technically breached his contract already. But as I said, I don't really get how the non-disclosure conditions work.

Ok... back to the 1000 to 1 odds for Chisora to win against Wlad twice.

The pros of his deal:

1) he gets an undeserved fight for the title
2) he gets at least 10 times more for the fight than he would have against his normal opponents, all unearned and undeserving
3) he gets a meteoric rise in credibility, meaning his 16th, 17th, 18th fight etc will have substantial increases in dollar value. All unearned and undeserving.

The cons:

1) there is a 1 in 1000 chance that he will have to have two rematches, instead of one.

Let's see how seriously we should be taking those odds, shall we?

Chance of dying from any kind of injury during the next year: 1 in 1,820
Chance that Earth will experience a catastrophic collision with an asteroid in the next 100 years: 1 in 5,000
Odds of being on plane with a drunken pilot: 117 to 1
Odds of injury from mowing the lawn: 3,623 to 1
Odds of fatally slipping in bath or shower: 2,232 to 1
Odds of being struck by lightning -- 1 in 10,456 (lifetime)
Odds of being Murdered -- 1 in 140 (lifetime)

So I guess that people bitching about this clause also spend a lot of time worrying about how they will certainly die from having a shower?

Perspective, context, call it what you want. The fact is that Chisora is going to fight Wlad, get beaten, get paid much more than he deserves, and will continue to them earn more than he would otherwise have done.

Whining about a clause that will not happen? That's descended into more than being silly.

[rushman]

Originally Posted by Double Jay

Let me put it this way: get a MANDATORY shot and you'll get "fair money".

Well, we know that is true. Haye has managed to grab a belt and made himself out as one of the higher ranked fighters. So his contract offer changes dramatically for the better.
That's common sense.

But apparently people who have done nothing to earn an opportunity deserve everything handed to them on a silver platter?