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Old 10-25-2010, 10:39 AM   #1
paulfv
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Default Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

Since it has come out in the first Pacquiao vs Margarito 24/7 that Team Pacquiao agreed to a 7-day cut-off for the blood testing and not a "0-day" cutoff for blood testing, some writers and posters who should know better have been trumpeting this "discovery" as some kind of vindication of their private conspiracy theories or are simply using the new information to continue to smear Manny Pacquiao and/or give credence to Floyd Mayweather's 2-time ducking of the Filipino pound-for-pound king.

Let's put a stop to this nonsense.

Many on here probably don't know a PED -- or how PED testing works -- from their own backside, and thus have no idea what they're talking about with regards to this issue. In fact, this is what Floyd Mayweather seems to be relying on in his manic desire to avoid fighting Pacquiao: The ignorance of the boxing public.

As most know, Floyd was advised both by his own medical expert(s) in the first round of negotiations as well as his team to agree to the 14-day (or was it 21 days?) window supposedly agreed on by Team Pacquiao in order to make the fight. Floyd refused, and the fight did not get made.

After ducking Pacquiao the first time, Mayweather then said that was the last time Pac would get the 14-day window offer. So what did Team Pacquiao do during the next round of negotiations (which Floyd apparently flat-out lied about and said never took place)?

He agreed to a 7-day window in order to get the fight with Mayweather made. That is, he budged. He compromised, agreed to stipulations to satisfy wild conspiracy theories that almost no other fighter in the sport has had to deal with. But he did it anyways. And what happened?

Floyd went on vacation and allegedly beat up his baby momma.

Now, let's turn to the 7-days vs 0-days issue, itself.

My own experience with PEDs comes from having been a powerlifter in my past (never used PEDs but knew many who did) as well as having a former world-class powerlifter as a brother who worked with some of the top nutritional supplement experts from around the world in several business ventures and his own competitive training.

Couple of things, then:

* You cannot run any kind of steroid, HGH or other muscle-building program in 7 days.

This should be obvious to anyone with even a slight knowledge of working out. That is, you're not making any meaningful gains in 7 days. Particularly as you lead up to a fight in which you have to be fresh heading into the ring (vs doing hard muscle building work the last week before a fight) and when you are going to be tested right after the fight. You're literally talking here, at best, like a 4-day window to get any kind of steroid/HGH/etc "gains." If you think this is at all meaningful, you don't know anything about PED's or training, and I have a bridge to sell you located in Manhattan.

* The only possible, meaningful PED's you could hope to use in a 7-day window would be things like amphetamines or other 'day-of' boosters

What I'm talking about here are things like Major League Baseball "greenies" or whatever Panama Lewis put in Aaron Pryor's drink bottle. That is, some kind of same-day drug that increases your immunity to pain (like the injections which Floyd supposedly used on his fragile hands in training), heightens your nervous system alertness, etc.

One problem with this, though: You have to take a post-fight drug test and you will be caught if you try this. Unless, of course, you're a know-nothing or conspiracy theorist who somehow, someway, thinks that Pac has some "magic pill" amphetamine he can take for like 4 days before the fight that will -- voila! -- give him supernatural powers come fight night but yet not show up on a drug test.

That pill doesn't exist.

Or, perhaps you think Pacquiao has gotten into untestable gene therapy. Yeah, that's it; that's the ticket. I think Pac got the latest techniques on gene therapy when the UFO flew over New York City last week or whatever.

Or, if you understand PED's and training, and how the PR game is played, you might come to the conclusion that Team Mayweather did their homework, realized that Pacquiao blamed his first loss to Eric Morales on a blood test he took beforehand and thus Team Mayweather understood that they could play a public relations game and both duck Pacquiao and pretend they were doing so on principle, to help "clean up the sport," of course, not for any personal reasons (beating up baby momma allegations notwithstanding in terms of "cleaning up the sport," of course).

This is where some noted authors on the sport are at: Conspiracy-Theory Land or Ignoranceville. They think you're dumb, or they are ignorant themselves on how PED's and testing works. Even Victor Conte, who first tried to defend Mayweather's refusal to accept the 14-day window, has come clean on how irrelevant this time period is. And that was 14 days.

And so we're left with supposed boxing "experts" trying to make a distinction without a difference. That is, if you agree to a 7-day cutoff on blood testing, you are, in effect, conceding to a 0-day cutoff. Anything in your blood for 3-5 days before the fight is almost certainly going to be caught on the fight night drug test. You can't build relevant muscle in 7 days, especially as you go into the "cool down/recover" phase before a prize fight. If you try to sneak amphetamines or EPO in on fight night, you'll be caught, not to mention your body won't be used to it because you're introducing it so late in your training phase.

Did Team Pac "lie" about the 0-day agreement? It seems they did. Does it matter? No, not in terms of how it affects either negotiations or performance on fight night.

Floyd still doesn't or didn't want the fight. Maybe that will change one day, or maybe, as Pac suggested in comparing Floyd's achievements to his own in the first 24/7 for the Margarito bout, he just doesn't care to chase a 2-time ducker anymore and Pac will simply move on from Floyd. As Pacquiao said, he feels he no longer "needs" Floyd for his legacy and that would seem to be correct, particularly as Pacquiao is chasing a title in a record-extending 8th weight division.

If any writer tries to make a point on this "7-Day" issue, understand they have an agenda. And the agenda is not "the truth," it is to try to diminish Pacquiao and likely raise up or protect a man who twice dodged Pacquiao. This is unfortunate, but their ruse only works if you're stupid enough to let them con you with their words and misguided concepts.

Be smart.

Last edited by paulfv; 10-25-2010 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:43 AM   #2
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Default Re: Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

Don't you know, Pac is gonna wait for the 7 day cut-off date, shoot himself up with A-side meth and Ariza-Power-Pellets, pass the urine tests that continue until day 0, then pass the post fight blood test too.


All the while, Floyd will kick his ass anyways, with or without the tests.



Let's be serious about this. Even the 24 day window was good enough. 3 weeks of hGH will barely do anything. EPO will get caught in the piss.
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:45 AM   #3
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Default Re: Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

I don't think this is relevant any more. People who seriously think you can take PED's within a week and get away with it, are deluded. It's just not an issue any more. We all know that, for whatever reason, mayweather doesn't want this fight but Pacquiao does. That is all.
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:51 AM   #4
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Default Re: Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulfv View Post
Since it has come out in the first Pacquiao vs Margarito 24/7 that Team Pacquiao agreed to a 7-day cut-off for the blood testing and not a "0-day" cutoff for blood testing, some writers and posters who should know better have been trumpeting this "discovery" as some kind of vindication of their private conspiracy theories or simply using the information to continue to smear Manny Pacquiao and/or give credence to Floyd Mayweather's 2-time ducking of the Filipino pound-for-pound king.

Let's put a stop to this nonsense.

Many on here probably don't know a PED -- or how PED testing works -- from their own backside, and thus have no idea what they're talking about with regards to this issue. In fact, this is what Floyd Mayweather seems to be relying on in his manic desire to avoid fighting Pacquiao: The ignorance of the boxing public.

As most know, Floyd was advised both by his own medical expert(s) in the first round of negotiations as well as his team to agree to the 14-day (or was it 21 days?) window supposedly agreed on by Team Pacquiao in order to make the fight. Floyd refused, and the fight did not get made.

After ducking Pacquiao the first time, Mayweather then said that was the last time Pac would get the 14-day window offer. So what did Team Pacquiao do during the next round of negotiations (which Floyd apparently flat-out lied about and said never took place)?

He agreed to a 7-day window in order to get the fight with Mayweather made. That is, he budged. He compromised, agreed to stipulations to satisfy wild conspiracy theories that almost no other fighter in the sport has had to deal with. But he did it anyways. And what happened?

Floyd went on vacation and allegedly beat up his baby momma.

Now, let's turn to the 7-days vs 0-days issue, itself.

My own experience with PEDs comes from having been a powerlifter in my past (never used PEDs but knew many who did) as well as having a former world-class powerlifter as a brother who worked with some of the top nutritional supplement experts from around the world in several business ventures and his own competitive training.

Couple of things, then:

* You cannot run any kind of steroid, HGH or other muscle-building program in 7 days.

This should be obvious to anyone with even a slight knowledge of working out. That is, you're not making any meaningful gains in 7 days. Particularly as you lead up to a fight in which you have to be fresh heading into the ring (vs doing hard muscle building work the last week before a fight) and when you are going to be tested right after the fight. You're literally talking here, at best, like a 4-day window to get any kind of steroid/HGH/etc "gains." If you think this is at all meaningful, you don't know anything about PED's or training, and I have a bridge to sell you located in Manhattan.

* The only possible, meaningful PED's you could hope to use in a 7-day window would be things like amphetamines or other 'day-of' boosters

What I'm talking about here are things like Major League Baseball "greenies" or whatever Panama Lewis put in Aaron Pryor's drink bottle. That is, some kind of same-day drug that increases your immunity to pain (like the injections which Floyd supposedly used on his fragile hands in training), heightens your nervous system alertness, etc.

One problem with this, though: You have to take a post-fight drug test and you will be caught if you try this. Unless, of course, you're a know-nothing or conspiracy theorist who somehow, someway, thinks that Pac has some "magic pill" amphetamine he can take for like 4 days before the fight that will -- voila! -- give him supernatural powers come fight night but yet not show up on a drug test.

That pill doesn't exist.

Or, perhaps you think Pacquiao has gotten into untestable gene therapy. Yeah, that's it; that's the ticket. I think Pac got the latest techniques on gene therapy when the UFO flew over New York City last week or whatever.

Or, if you understand PED's and training, and how the PR game is played, you might come to the conclusion that Team Mayweather did their homework, realized that Pacquiao blamed his first loss to Eric Morales on a blood test he took beforehand and thus Team Mayweather understood that they could play a public relations game and both duck Pacquiao and pretend they were doing so on principle, to help "clean up the sport," of course, not for any personal reasons (beating up baby momma allegations notwithstanding in terms of "cleaning up the sport," of course).

This is where some noted authors on the sport are at: Conspiracy-Theory Land or Ignoranceville. They think you're dumb, or they are ignorant themselves on how PED's and testing works. Even Victor Conte, who first tried to defend Mayweather's refusal to accept the 14-day window, has come clean on how irrelevant this time period is. And that was 14 days.

And so we're left with supposed boxing "experts" trying to make a distinction without a difference. That is, if you agree to a 7-day cutoff on blood testing, you are, in effect, conceding to a 0-day cutoff. Anything in your blood for 3-5 days before the fight is almost certainly going to be caught on the fight night test. You can't build relevant muscle in 7 days, especially as you go into the "cool down/recover" phase before a prize fight. If you try to sneak amphetamines or EPO in on fight night, you'll be caught, not to mention your body won't be used to it because you're introducing it so late in your training phase.

Did Team Pac "lie" about the 0-day agreement? It seems they did. Does it matter? No, not in terms of how it affects either negotiations or performance on fight night.

Floyd still doesn't want the fight. Maybe that will change one day, or maybe, as Pac suggested in comparing Floyd's achievements to his own in the 1st 24/7, he just doesn't care to chase a 2-time ducker anymore and Pac will simply move on from Floyd. As he said, he feels he no longer "needs" Floyd for his legacy and that would seem to be correct, particularly as Pacquiao is chasing a title in a record-extending 8th weight division.

If any writer tries to make a point on this issue, understand they have an agenda. And the agenda is not "the truth," it is to try to diminish Pacquiao and likely raise up or protect a man who twice dodged Pacquiao. This is unfortunate, but it only works if you're stupid enough to let them con you with their words.

Be smart.

READ THE WHOLE POST..NOT BAD..

STILL LIED AND U ADMITTED IT..THATS BOTTOM LINE

WHY HE LYING...WHY THEY CANT JUST PUT IT OUT THERE LIKE FLOYD...

FLOYD CLEARLY SAID POST MOSLEY FIGHT "UP UNTIL THE DAY OF"

BY AGREEING TO 7 DAYS THAT DID AS MUCH AS NOTHING OBVIOUSLY..

ILL SAY IT AGAIN.."IF PAC DOES NOT TAKE THE TESTS UP UNTIL THE DAY OF THE FIGHT THIS FIGHT WILL NEVER HAPPEN".

BUT HEY PAC SAID HIMSELF HE DONT NEED FLOYD RIGHT SO THERE U HAVE IT..GUY IS SCARED OF SOME DRUG TESTING..ANYONE ELSE WOULDA BEEN TAKEN THE TESTS..

BACK TO THE THREAD THOUGH...U ADMITTED URSELF HE LIED...UUUHHHH UR FAULT
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:52 AM   #5
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Default Re: Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

You can argue the merit of requesting the tests and their validity but the main issue here is that Pacquiao and Arum claimed to agree to all demands from Mayweather and that was proven to be false.
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:52 AM   #6
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Default Re: Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

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Originally Posted by PH|LLA View Post
Don't you know, Pac is gonna wait for the 7 day cut-off date, shoot himself up with A-side meth and Ariza-Power-Pellets, pass the urine tests that continue until day 0, then pass the post fight blood test too.


All the while, Floyd will kick his ass anyways, with or without the tests.



Let's be serious about this. Even the 24 day window was good enough. 3 weeks of hGH will barely do anything. EPO will get caught in the piss.
MAN..U MISSING THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE TESTS....HAVING ANY KIND OF CUTOFF TAKES AWAY FROM THE INTEGRITY OF THE TESTS PERIOD....

FLOYD MADE IT CLEAR "UP UNTIL THE DAY OF" POST MOSLEY...NEXT ONE

BTW ...JUST ABOUT EVERYONE SAYING PAC LIED ABOUT THE 0 DAY AGREEMENT AND THATS WHAT COUNTS..

GUY LIED AND PACTARDS STILL MAKING EXCUSES
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:53 AM   #7
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Default Re: Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

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Originally Posted by sdsfinest22 View Post
READ THE WHOLE POST..NOT BAD..

STILL LIED AND U ADMITTED IT..THATS BOTTOM LINE

WHY HE LYING...WHY THEY CANT JUST PUT IT OUT THERE LIKE FLOYD...

FLOYD CLEARLY SAID POST MOSLEY FIGHT "UP UNTIL THE DAY OF"

BY AGREEING TO 7 DAYS THAT DID AS MUCH AS NOTHING OBVIOUSLY..

ILL SAY IT AGAIN.."IF PAC DOES NOT TAKE THE TESTS UP UNTIL THE DAY OF THE FIGHT THIS FIGHT WILL NEVER HAPPEN".

BUT HEY PAC SAID HIMSELF HE DONT NEED FLOYD RIGHT SO THERE U HAVE IT..GUY IS SCARED OF SOME DRUG TESTING..ANYONE ELSE WOULDA BEEN TAKEN THE TESTS..

BACK TO THE THREAD THOUGH...U ADMITTED URSELF HE LIED...UUUHHHH UR FAULT
I never saw for myself that Pac said he agreed to 0 days, but I'll assume that people who say he did are telling the truth...

But why don't you mention how Floyd lied about there being no negotiations?

funny how these DOUBLE STANDARDS work when it comes to Pac.
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:53 AM   #8
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Default Re: Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

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You can argue the merit of requesting the tests and their validity but the main issue here is that Pacquiao and Arum claimed to agree to all demands from Mayweather and that was proven to be false.
THIS..EVERYTHING ELSE JUST ME TALKING SHIT IN THE END THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

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You can argue the merit of requesting the tests and their validity but the main issue here is that Pacquiao and Arum claimed to agree to all demands from Mayweather and that was proven to be false.
They said they agreed to what Team Mayweather wanted. In the negotiations, Mayweather's advisors agreed to everything.

All we know is, is that Mayweather himself said he wanted a 0 day cut off. Several months later, we know his team went there, with the intention of agreeing to a 7 day cut off. Now, either Mayweather had no issues with 7 days, as it's impossible to cheat, or his team went behind his back and accepted the offer.

Whatever it is, 7 days was no a sticking point. It was something both sides agreed upon and I have very little doubt that Mayweather knew it had been agreed.
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:55 AM   #10
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Default Re: Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

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I never saw for myself that Pac said he agreed to 0 days, but I'll assume that people who say he did are telling the truth...

But why don't you mention how Floyd lied about there being no negotiations?
I have many times Philla....But at the same time him lying about the negotiations doesn't directly effect much of anything...

SO HE LIED..WHAT DOES IT EFFECT?? THEY WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE TALKING ABOUT NEGOTIATIONS THROUGH THE MEDIA ANYWAYS

SO AGAIN...PAC TOLD MICHAEL MARLEY WITH FREDDIE ROACH SITTING RIGHT THERE THAT HE AGREED TO ALL DEMANDS..

KONCZ TWISTED IT MAN...IN THE END HE LIED OR KONCZ IS LYING...

EITHER WAY TEAM PAC IS VERY IFFY WITH THE INFO THEY LEAK TO THE MEDIA...
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:56 AM   #11
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Default Re: Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

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You can argue the merit of requesting the tests and their validity but the main issue here is that Pacquiao and Arum claimed to agree to all demands from Mayweather and that was proven to be false.
I would say the main issue is that Pac has demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that he is clean. Wether he lied about accepting Floyd's superfluous demands are not is very secondary.

We know Floyd lies about the negoatiations as well, but I don't see you saying that's the "main issue".
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:58 AM   #12
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Default Re: Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

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They said they agreed to what Team Mayweather wanted. In the negotiations, Mayweather's advisors agreed to everything.

All we know is, is that Mayweather himself said he wanted a 0 day cut off. Several months later, we know his team went there, with the intention of agreeing to a 7 day cut off. Now, either Mayweather had no issues with 7 days, as it's impossible to cheat, or his team went behind his back and accepted the offer.

Whatever it is, 7 days was no a sticking point. It was something both sides agreed upon and I have very little doubt that Mayweather knew it had been agreed.
I can provide you a source showing that the info u have is wrong and they did infact agree to 0 day testing....

BUT THAN YOU'LL PROBABLY MAKE EXCUSES AND TWIST THE SOURCE AROUND..
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:59 AM   #13
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Default Re: Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

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Originally Posted by sdsfinest22 View Post
I have many times Philla....But at the same time him lying about the negotiations doesn't directly effect much of anything...

SO HE LIED..WHAT DOES IT EFFECT?? THEY WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE TALKING ABOUT NEGOTIATIONS THROUGH THE MEDIA ANYWAYS

SO AGAIN...PAC TOLD MICHAEL MARLEY WITH FREDDIE ROACH SITTING RIGHT THERE THAT HE AGREED TO ALL DEMANDS..

KONCZ TWISTED IT MAN...IN THE END HE LIED OR KONCZ IS LYING...

EITHER WAY TEAM PAC IS VERY IFFY WITH THE INFO THEY LEAK TO THE MEDIA...
Pac told Michael Marley with Roach sitting right there? According to who? Michael Marley lol? I gotta trust you've got a better source than that guy.

Anyways, I don't care that Floyd lied about negotiations taking place. What matters is that Pac has accepted testing that rules out any form of cheating (imo from the 1st time around, this time everyone should have no doubt). When you think about it, Pac would've been in his right to tell Floyd no from the beginning, because those kind of accusations are pretty insulting in the first place. He didn't, so now make the fight.
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Old 10-25-2010, 11:00 AM   #14
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Default Re: Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

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You can argue the merit of requesting the tests and their validity but the main issue here is that Pacquiao and Arum claimed to agree to all demands from Mayweather and that was proven to be false.
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Old 10-25-2010, 11:01 AM   #15
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Default Re: Understanding The Desperation Of The "7 Days" Complainers vs Pac

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They said they agreed to what Team Mayweather wanted. In the negotiations, Mayweather's advisors agreed to everything.

All we know is, is that Mayweather himself said he wanted a 0 day cut off. Several months later, we know his team went there, with the intention of agreeing to a 7 day cut off. Now, either Mayweather had no issues with 7 days, as it's impossible to cheat, or his team went behind his back and accepted the offer.

Whatever it is, 7 days was no a sticking point. It was something both sides agreed upon and I have very little doubt that Mayweather knew it had been agreed.
Correct and I should have been clearer about this in my first post. Thanks, Jack.

sdsfinest22 -- To repeat: Distinction without a difference. This is a smoke-and-mirrors defense by Team Floyd and his groupies, and you know it as well as I do. The saddest part it, some will believe it and some in the media will give credence to it. It's a joke.

Thanks for the props, though.
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