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Old 10-30-2011, 11:15 AM   #1
Flexb
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Default A neutral stance looking at Pac and Floyd

Lets get this straight; I don't like neither fighter although I respect both men as fighters and realize how great both are. I used to be on Floyd's side when the testing demands began but he wasn't just asking for a simple test, he was asking for intricate testing.
But all of that aside, it amazes me these two fail to fight. I realize the promoters have a good deal to do with this. There are so many ego's going around and all of them think they deserve the biggest piece of the pie.
While all this is going on, and both men are fighters lesser beings, Manny and Floyd are on the downward slope of their primes and this is a travesty. We will never know who would have beat who in their prime which was probably 2 years ago.
I also think this fight could have happened if Floyd didn't pull that testing bs out of the air but it was an obvious ploy to derail this fight. Floyd is concerned about losing his 0 and seems content to fight people he's confident he will have no issues with. Manny is fighting who he can so I can't hate on him, even though some of his greatest wins were vs. shot fighters such as Oscar and Mosley, and we can say the same for Floyd.
If Floyd fights Sergio I will give him props, but it's still not the fight that this generation will remember.
If we're lucky these two will meet sometime next year, towards the end, but Floyd is simply waiting to see Manny lose a significant step before he steps up.
But as I said, it really doesn't matter anymore because we will not see these 2 beasts fight in their primes. It's too late.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:19 AM   #2
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Default Re: A neutral stance looking at Pac and Floyd

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Originally Posted by Flexb View Post
Lets get this straight; I don't like neither fighter although I respect both men as fighters and realize how great both are. I used to be on Floyd's side when the testing demands began but he wasn't just asking for a simple test, he was asking for intricate testing.
But all of that aside, it amazes me these two fail to fight. I realize the promoters have a good deal to do with this. There are so many ego's going around and all of them think they deserve the biggest piece of the pie.
While all this is going on, and both men are fighters lesser beings, Manny and Floyd are on the downward slope of their primes and this is a travesty. We will never know who would have beat who in their prime which was probably 2 years ago.
I also think this fight could have happened if Floyd didn't pull that testing bs out of the air but it was an obvious ploy to derail this fight. Floyd is concerned about losing his 0 and seems content to fight people he's confident he will have no issues with. Manny is fighting who he can so I can't hate on him, even though some of his greatest wins were vs. shot fighters such as Oscar and Mosley, and we can say the same for Floyd.
If Floyd fights Sergio I will give him props, but it's still not the fight that this generation will remember.
If we're lucky these two will meet sometime next year, towards the end, but Floyd is simply waiting to see Manny lose a significant step before he steps up.
But as I said, it really doesn't matter anymore because we will not see these 2 beasts fight in their primes. It's too late.
I understand what you are saying and respect your opinion but there is just one problem. Floyd asked for testing from the start and Team Pacquiao agreed to do the testing with no problem. They later backed out of that agreement and started asking for cut offs. So how the hell could Floyd have used testing to get out of the fight when Team Pacquiao agreed to it from the start? Floyd even gave them a 2 week cut off period and that wasn't good enough. Remember Arum was the one who walked away from the mediator telling lies and had to come back and admit that Floyd offered them 14 days.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:29 AM   #3
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Default Re: A neutral stance looking at Pac and Floyd

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Originally Posted by mrjotatp4p View Post
I understand what you are saying and respect your opinion but there is just one problem. Floyd asked for testing from the start and Team Pacquiao agreed to do the testing with no problem. They later backed out of that agreement and started asking for cut offs. So how the hell could Floyd have used testing to get out of the fight when Team Pacquiao agreed to it from the start? Floyd even gave them a 2 week cut off period and that wasn't good enough. Remember Arum was the one who walked away from the mediator telling lies and had to come back and admit that Floyd offered them 14 days.
And when Pac said ok to 14 days, what happened next? Was vacation the other option?

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Old 10-30-2011, 11:36 AM   #4
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Default Re: A neutral stance looking at Pac and Floyd

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And when Pac said ok to 14 days, what happened next? Was vacation the other option?

Dude do I have to break down the facts? Floyd wanted testing from the start with no cut offs. That is what his original demand was. Team Pacquiao accepted that demand. "I heard Floyd wanted OSDT, I said "sure give him whatever he wants. My fighter is clean" Freddie Roach. Floyd then offered them a 14 day cut off to make the damn fight and don't forget that Roach and Manny both said they didn't want to test the day of the fight. They don't want to test the day of the fight yet they turned down 14 days. Floyd said after that fight failed to happen that Manny will not get another cut off and that he was going back to his original demand. 14 days was off the table bc Manny turned it down. So don't act like 14 days was the original offer when in fact it was a counter offer to a 30 day cut off to try and save the fight.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:38 AM   #5
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Default Re: A neutral stance looking at Pac and Floyd

I used to be nuetral too....but when the demands became ALL talk and NO contract, I began to see Floyd as strictly a talker.

If he EVER wanted the fight he could have had the contract drawn up, signed, sealed, and delivered.

But all he did was talk about this, or talk about that. Had he put it in writing I might have remained neutral on the fight.

As for Arum and the negotiators......that was strictly over the $$$$$, yeah the TALK was testing, but the writing was $$$$$$.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:05 PM   #6
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Default Re: A neutral stance looking at Pac and Floyd

Floyd doesnt fight top rank fighters. End thread
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:08 PM   #7
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Default Re: A neutral stance looking at Pac and Floyd

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Originally Posted by mrjotatp4p View Post
Dude do I have to break down the facts? Floyd wanted testing from the start with no cut offs. That is what his original demand was. Team Pacquiao accepted that demand. "I heard Floyd wanted OSDT, I said "sure give him whatever he wants. My fighter is clean" Freddie Roach. Floyd then offered them a 14 day cut off to make the damn fight and don't forget that Roach and Manny both said they didn't want to test the day of the fight. They don't want to test the day of the fight yet they turned down 14 days. Floyd said after that fight failed to happen that Manny will not get another cut off and that he was going back to his original demand. 14 days was off the table bc Manny turned it down. So don't act like 14 days was the original offer when in fact it was a counter offer to a 30 day cut off to try and save the fight.

But why oh please convince me 14 days was good enough before but not now? Saying because Floyd changed his mind is not a valid reason.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: A neutral stance looking at Pac and Floyd

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Floyd doesnt fight top rank fighters. End thread
So you're saying asking for the tests is just a scam, drunkboat?
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: A neutral stance looking at Pac and Floyd

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But why oh please convince me 14 days was good enough before but not now? Saying because Floyd changed his mind is not a valid reason.
Jet no cut offs was the original offer and that is the offer that Team Pacquiao accepted but backed out of. They also backed away from the 14 day offer that Floyd made to make the fight happen. Hell I would go back to my original offer too if I was Floyd after all the games Team Pacquiao played. Why did team Pacquiao accept the offer but backed out later? Why did they walk away from 14 days when it was offered to them? Answer that for me.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: A neutral stance looking at Pac and Floyd

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Floyd doesnt fight top rank fighters. End thread
he only fights in house
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:18 PM   #11
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Default Re: A neutral stance looking at Pac and Floyd

did not read lol.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:19 PM   #12
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Default Re: A neutral stance looking at Pac and Floyd

I've had enough of these threads, and I wouldn't usually contribute in it...but I'm slightly hungover.

I still believe this bout has not happened because of ego's, mainly Arum and Mayweather.

When Mayweather took his first break away from the ring after Hatton (was meant to be after DLH)...I'd assume Mayweather was growing tired of the sport, his body needed a little recovery (hands, etc) or his motivation was waning. He took his time off, and Pacquiao replaced him as the sports #1 attraction. Mayweather wasn't really in the limelight anymore, and he was probably jealous of Pacquiao...which would explain his announcement of the Marquez bout on the eve of a Pacquiao fight. I genuinely believe it was his intention to fight Pacquiao after Marquez.

Many on this forum built their hopes up about the potential bout, and the negotiations started the first time around. In hindsight, I was naive to believe this bout could be made first time around...I still believe Arum and Roach didn't want that bout when Mayweather was looking like he very much did want it (I believe Pacquiao would have fought him whenever). Arum knew Mayweather had the tools to beat Pacquiao, and Roach needed more time to prepare for him. Going back two years, I can't remember the exact events and in what order...but a 10 million weight penalty was introduced by Team Pacquiao, and agreed by Mayweather. Mayweather's ego came in to play, "If they (including Arum) think they can add stipulations, I'll add my own". Extra drug testing was proposed from Mayweather, agreed and then disagreed by Team Pacquiao. At this point, I still believe Pacquiao wanted the fight, but his team handled the situation horribly wrong. It was clear there wasn't much communication, and Pacquiao was probably told to say the wrong thing, which made him look like he had something to hide. At the end of the negotiations, Mayweather proposed a 14 day cut off, Arum did not relay this information to Pacquiao...Pacquiao probably would have accepted it. Arum killed the fight the first time around, and Arum got his in-house bout vs Clottey.

Who knows why the bout hasn't happened since then. I'm not going to call Mayweather scared, or a coward...the guy is a professional boxer. But worried about Pacquiao? See's Pacquiao as a major threat, a guy who can beat him? Yes. Mayweather is probably more worried about the '0' to be honest. His whole career, character and selling point is based around it.

Do I think Mayweather was satisfied with his performance against Mosley? No. Even if it was dominant. He got caught and hurt in the second round. I don't think he envisioned it. Whereas Pacquiao continued to be as dominant as ever. Maybe it knocked his confidence, and motivation. Arum set up the bullshit deadline during negotiations knowing full well that the bout was not going to happen.

I think the bout is more likely to happen now than ever before. Am I getting my hopes up though? No. Pacquiao has a bout scheduled, and Mayweather has issues to settle outside of the ring. 2012 is the most likely time for this bout to happen IMO. It is the latest this bout should happen aswell. Both not at their peak, both at the edge, or even slightly past prime...but still very much an intriguing bout that still has appeal.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:20 PM   #13
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Default Re: A neutral stance looking at Pac and Floyd

no neutral stance with flomos and pactard.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: A neutral stance looking at Pac and Floyd

they will be fighting cinco de mayo 2012 at the mgm grand.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:38 PM   #15
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Default Re: A neutral stance looking at Pac and Floyd

there is no neutral stance because the neutral stance favors pac. floyd fans will never accept that floyd is wrong.

just consider the following: (this is as neutral as it can get)

1. espn: floyd is coward
2.yahoo: floyd is chicken
3.hbo guy: its on floyd, you have to ask floyd
4.keizer: they cant agree on cutoff, floyd went to the media.
5.nsac: no blood drawn close to the fight.
6. everybody (involved in the nego) except floyd : agreed to petition nsac
7. usada: distancing from the blood test mess, not shown in 24/7, and was only forced to publish results.
and even
8: oscar : apologizing, distancing himself from the drug mess.

the casual fans dont understanding wtf is this blood test stuff that is stalling the fight. why dont they just fight.
imagine the scenario:
you go into a grocery store to buy coffeee. you spotted a bottle with a $15 price tag. while going to the cashier with the bottle of coffee, someone (apparently a coffee enthusiast) come up to you and start rattling information about coffe: this one is better, organic fertilizer are used, the packaging is biodegradable, has good percentage of caffeine, etc, etc.
what would be your reaction? if youre casual coffee drinker, most likely: wtf, is just a ****ing coffee. im not going to die.

just watch the interview of floyd on conan, around 6:09 mark.
look how akward it is for "enthusiast" to explain to a "casual fan" why they are not fighting.
and look at the "casual fan;s " face.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1_VvzBp4gw[/ame]

the blood test saga are only in the minds of boxing hardcore fans. and for the fans who wants to see the fight, its very frustrating.
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