16 Man Fantasy Tournament

cross_trainer · 06-28-2007, 10:42 PM

All fighters in their primes. Who wins, and why?

Brackets

Fedor Emelianenko
Josh Barnett

Mark Coleman
Ken Shamrock

Andrei Arlovski
Mark Kerr

Bas Rutten
Igor Vovchanchyn

Frank Mir
Randy Couture

Tim Sylvia
Kevin Randleman

Ricco Rodriguez
Maurice Smith

Don Frye
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira

SweetScienceFan · 06-28-2007, 11:56 PM

Fedor
Coleman

Arlovski
Igor

Couture
Sylvia

Ricco
Nog
..................

Fedor
Igor

Couture
Rodriguez (I always felt that Ricco clearly beat Nog when they fought and was robbed)

......................................

Fedor
Rodriquez

...................................

Fedor

Beebs · 06-29-2007, 02:16 AM

Brackets

Fedor Emelianenko - not particularly prone to leglocks, better striker, a push at worse on the takedown game, better in transition fighting
Josh Barnett

Mark Coleman - Hard to define a prime Mark Coleman, as there were essentially 2 primes for him, his early days in UFC, then around the 2000gp in Pride, I would take the Pride Coleman over Shamrock any day of the week, as his wrestling is tons better, one of the few stronger people than a prime Shamrock, and only got subbed by the most technical, which Shamrock was not, in terms of GnP allowed MMA. If fought under Pancrase rules, Shamrock would probably win since Coleman lives by the ground and pound, so I guess you can't really even include a prime Shamrock fairly.
Ken Shamrock

Andrei Arlovski
Mark Kerr - Two enigmas, but Kerr has all the right tools to bulldoze Arlovski, who never really had good wrestling, even before his recent fall off, and while his striking is deadly when somebody is willing to play ball, Kerr would not be, and Kerr has the sub defense to stay out of whatever Arlovski throws at him.

Bas Rutten
Igor Vovchanchyn - Tough call, really is, but Igor is more proven accomplishment wise in non Pancrase MMA, IMO. Also I think Igor vs Enson is a good reason why Igor would pull it out, while we all picture Igor as two cinderblocks attached to a tree trunk, he would often use a strategy that was the prototype for what would become Fedor's GnP attack, punch into a clinch, if you don't get the KO, work from the guard and hurt the guy. Bas did not have great TD defense, and would often let people work from his guard, which would come back to haunt him in this close matchup.

Frank Mir
Randy Couture - While Prime Mir has become underrated lately due to the guy currently fighting in his place, Randy is just to much, striking, wrestling, sub defense, and CARDIO, for Mir to handle. Mir made a living off of sort of strange subs and good wrestling, and could definitely hit one of the subs, but I wouldn't count on it with Randy's new sub defense.

Tim Sylvia
Kevin Randleman - Even Pre tentative Tim would be unprepared for the explosiveness of Randleman, and would not have the subs to put him away. Hell, given Sylvia's propensity to get hit, he might just get himself KO'd by that Monster left hook.

Ricco Rodriguez - Too much of everything, Mo could beat alot of the people on here, and could conceivably beat Ricco, but a prime Ricco, who should have gotten the win against Nog, subbed Nog in ADCC, and beat Couture would handle his business against Mo.
Maurice Smith

Don Frye
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira - Better boxing, chin made of some sort of Titanium and Diamond alloy, and a sub game from hell would be too much for even the most brutal reincarnation of Frye, which really says alot about prime Nog, moreso than Prime Frye, who is often overlooked for ATG status.

Round 2

Fedor - even a prime Coleman would still be prone to getting caught with a sub, which Fedor has proven to be able to get, if anything the Coleman with the best chance to beat Fedor already fought him, he wasn't as good of a fighter, but he was better with subs at that point, and even that wasn't enough. Headbutts would come into play, and that might give Coleman a win, maybe, but the smart bet is on Fedor I would have to say.
Mark Colman

Mark Kerr
Igor - We pretty much saw this, while it wasn't quite prime Kerr, Kerr was always a little too willing to strike with strikers, and that would again bite him in the ass.

Randy Couture - Again, we saw a pretty close example of this, and Randy won by being the smarter fighter, with the more technical all around game, Randleman could win, as he can beat anybody, but he probably would fall short again.
Kevin Randleman

Ricco - I honestly thought Ricco won their fight, it was pretty close to their prime, and Ricco had the game to outgrapple Nog. Nog's only thing close to a sub weakness leglocks (Barnett in 1 and Ricco in ADCC). Ricco is also the better wrestler, which would lead to him winning the fight, likely by decision.
Nog

Round 3

Fedor - Just a more developed, bigger, more polished Igor, v2 if you would say. Although Igor might land a bomb and end it, thats not the way it would go most of the time.
Igor

Randy - I don't think the first match was prime Randy, not to take anything away from Ricco, as it was still a very good Randy. But Randy was doing a very good job up until Ricco wore him down physically, which I don't see the new Randy succombing to, add in better striking and Subs, and Randy takes it this time.
Ricco

Final

I think we will see a close approximation of this this (Prime Randy might have been a few years ago) soon enough, and it will be a great fight

Ok thats a copout, but logic says Fedor, but I think Randy will win the fight, but since we are doing prime for prime.

Fedor - A Fedor who has been facing high level opponants and being busy would probably find a way to win, as much as I love Randy (although I like Fedor nearly as much)
Randy

Although I think Randy will win this fight if it happens soon, as neither fighter is in their "prime" with Randy getting older and Fedor being so inactive and injured, I think Randy will pull it off in a way similar to Mark Coleman looked good for a while until the sub. I think Randy will dirty box into a takedown, and then keep Fedor on his back, steadily inflicting damage in a controlled pace, while staying out of Fedors explosive subs. Bitch at me all you want.

jimmie · 06-29-2007, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cross_trainer

All fighters in their primes. Who wins, and why?

Brackets

Fedor Emelianenko
Josh Barnett

Mark Coleman
Ken Shamrock

Andrei Arlovski
Mark Kerr

Bas Rutten
Igor Vovchanchyn

Frank Mir
Randy Couture

Tim Sylvia
Kevin Randleman

Ricco Rodriguez
Maurice Smith

Don Frye
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira

I just got off work so I dont really have the enegery to break it down so ill do it quick.

Fedor
Coleman
Arlovski
Rutten
Couture
Randleman
Rodriguez
Nogueria

Fedor
Arlovski
Couture
Nogueria I thought myself he beat Rodriguez when they fought

Fedor
Couture

Fedor

Smith · 06-29-2007, 08:12 AM

Im changing about the match ups a bit to ensure seeding was in place( the way i see fighters) so;
--------------------------------------------------------------------
FIRST ROUND

Fedor Emelianenko
Ken Shamrock

Mark Coleman
Frank Mir

Andrei Arlovski
Mark Kerr

Bas Rutten
Igor Vovchanchyn

Kevin Randleman
Randy Couture

Tim Sylvia
Ricco Rodriguez

Josh Barnett
Maurice Smith

Don Frye
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
-----------------------------------------------------------------

SECOND ROUND

Fedor Emelianenko
Mark Coleman

Mark Kerr
Igor Vovchanchyn

Randy Couture
Ricco Rodriguez

Josh Barnett
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
-------------------------------------------------------------
SEMIS

Fedor Emelianenko
Igor Vovchanchyn

Randy Couture
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
--------------------------------------------------------------
FINAL

Fedor Emelianenko
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira

USMCGixxer6 · 06-29-2007, 10:05 AM

1st round
Fedor Emelianenko-Winner
Josh Barnett

Mark Coleman-Winner
Ken Shamrock

Andrei Arlovski
Mark Kerr-Winner

Bas Rutten-Winner
Igor Vovchanchyn

Frank Mir
Randy Couture-Winner

Tim Sylvia
Kevin Randleman-Winner, tough to call, but I just dont like Tim, so Im biased on this one

Ricco Rodriguez-Winner
Maurice Smith

Don Frye
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira-Winner, more complete game
---------------------------------------------------
2nd round
Fedor-Fedor wins
Coleman

Mark Kerr-Kerr takes it
Bas

Couture-Couture Wins
Randleman

Ricco
Big Nog-Big Nog Wins

--------------------
Semis

Fedor-Fedor Wins
Kerr

Couture
Big Nog-Big Nog wins

-----------------------
Finals

Fedor
Big Nog-Big Nog Wins, Upset, 4th times a charm

jimmie · 06-29-2007, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMCGixxer6

1st round
Fedor Emelianenko-Winner
Josh Barnett

Mark Coleman-Winner
Ken Shamrock

Andrei Arlovski
Mark Kerr-Winner

Bas Rutten-Winner
Igor Vovchanchyn

Frank Mir
Randy Couture-Winner

Tim Sylvia
Kevin Randleman-Winner, tough to call, but I just dont like Tim, so Im biased on this one

Ricco Rodriguez-Winner
Maurice Smith

Don Frye
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira-Winner, more complete game
---------------------------------------------------
2nd round
Fedor-Fedor wins
Coleman

Mark Kerr-Kerr takes it
Bas

Couture-Couture Wins
Randleman

Ricco
Big Nog-Big Nog Wins

--------------------
Semis

Fedor-Fedor Wins
Kerr

Couture
Big Nog-Big Nog wins

-----------------------
Finals

Fedor
Big Nog-Big Nog Wins, Upset, 4th times a charm

Nog over Fedor

USMCGixxer6 · 06-29-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmie

Nog over Fedor

itd be the 4th time they fought, even though 1 of them ended in a NC

Fedor is better fighter, no doubt, I just think Nog would have his number in another matchup.

SweetScienceFan · 06-29-2007, 03:27 PM

By the way, if headbutts were allowed I may have to lean toward prime Coleman beating Fedor. We already know that an old Coleman in their first fight could take him down at will, and even got his back at one point. I could definitely see a prime Coleman taking Fedor down and winning due to cuts caused by headbutts, as Fedor is very prone to bad cuts.

USMCGixxer6 · 06-29-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetScienceFan

By the way, if headbutts were allowed I may have to lean toward prime Coleman beating Fedor. We already know that an old Coleman in their first fight could take him down at will, and even got his back at one point. I could definitely see a prime Coleman taking Fedor down and winning due to cuts caused by headbutts, as Fedor is very prone to bad cuts.

good point

ufoalf · 06-29-2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetScienceFan

By the way, if headbutts were allowed I may have to lean toward prime Coleman beating Fedor. We already know that an old Coleman in their first fight could take him down at will, and even got his back at one point. I could definitely see a prime Coleman taking Fedor down and winning due to cuts caused by headbutts, as Fedor is very prone to bad cuts.

True

Donut62 · 06-29-2007, 05:10 PM

I agree with Beebs bracket, but I have Ricco beating Randy and Fedor beating Ricco.

jimmie · 06-29-2007, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

How do you pick Randy over Ricco?

Randy was owing Ricco for the 1st 2 rounds in their fight so maybe hes basing it off then. Even with that said he did lose the fight and id have a rough time picking Randy unless I thought he could finish Ricco and honestly I dont think he could.

Donut62 · 06-29-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmie

Randy was owing Ricco for the 1st 2 rounds in their fight so maybe hes basing it off then. Even with that said he did lose the fight and id have a rough time picking Randy unless I thought he could finish Ricco and honestly I dont think he could.

Yeah, I really, really, REALLY wish Ricco hadn't wasted away like he did. If he was still in the shape he used to be, who knows where he could be right now.

06-28-2007, 10:42 PM	#1
cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club ESB Addict Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3,381 vCash: 1000	16 Man Fantasy Tournament All fighters in their primes. Who wins, and why? Brackets Fedor Emelianenko Josh Barnett Mark Coleman Ken Shamrock Andrei Arlovski Mark Kerr Bas Rutten Igor Vovchanchyn Frank Mir Randy Couture Tim Sylvia Kevin Randleman Ricco Rodriguez Maurice Smith Don Frye Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
Top

06-28-2007, 11:56 PM	#2
SweetScienceFan Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 234 vCash: 1000	Re: 16 Man Fantasy Tournament Fedor Coleman Arlovski Igor Couture Sylvia Ricco Nog .................. Fedor Igor Couture Rodriguez (I always felt that Ricco clearly beat Nog when they fought and was robbed) ...................................... Fedor Rodriquez ................................... Fedor
Top

06-29-2007, 02:16 AM	#3
Beebs Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,330 vCash: 1493	Re: 16 Man Fantasy Tournament Brackets Fedor Emelianenko - not particularly prone to leglocks, better striker, a push at worse on the takedown game, better in transition fighting Josh Barnett Mark Coleman - Hard to define a prime Mark Coleman, as there were essentially 2 primes for him, his early days in UFC, then around the 2000gp in Pride, I would take the Pride Coleman over Shamrock any day of the week, as his wrestling is tons better, one of the few stronger people than a prime Shamrock, and only got subbed by the most technical, which Shamrock was not, in terms of GnP allowed MMA. If fought under Pancrase rules, Shamrock would probably win since Coleman lives by the ground and pound, so I guess you can't really even include a prime Shamrock fairly. Ken Shamrock Andrei Arlovski Mark Kerr - Two enigmas, but Kerr has all the right tools to bulldoze Arlovski, who never really had good wrestling, even before his recent fall off, and while his striking is deadly when somebody is willing to play ball, Kerr would not be, and Kerr has the sub defense to stay out of whatever Arlovski throws at him. Bas Rutten Igor Vovchanchyn - Tough call, really is, but Igor is more proven accomplishment wise in non Pancrase MMA, IMO. Also I think Igor vs Enson is a good reason why Igor would pull it out, while we all picture Igor as two cinderblocks attached to a tree trunk, he would often use a strategy that was the prototype for what would become Fedor's GnP attack, punch into a clinch, if you don't get the KO, work from the guard and hurt the guy. Bas did not have great TD defense, and would often let people work from his guard, which would come back to haunt him in this close matchup. Frank Mir Randy Couture - While Prime Mir has become underrated lately due to the guy currently fighting in his place, Randy is just to much, striking, wrestling, sub defense, and CARDIO, for Mir to handle. Mir made a living off of sort of strange subs and good wrestling, and could definitely hit one of the subs, but I wouldn't count on it with Randy's new sub defense. Tim Sylvia Kevin Randleman - Even Pre tentative Tim would be unprepared for the explosiveness of Randleman, and would not have the subs to put him away. Hell, given Sylvia's propensity to get hit, he might just get himself KO'd by that Monster left hook. Ricco Rodriguez - Too much of everything, Mo could beat alot of the people on here, and could conceivably beat Ricco, but a prime Ricco, who should have gotten the win against Nog, subbed Nog in ADCC, and beat Couture would handle his business against Mo. Maurice Smith Don Frye Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira - Better boxing, chin made of some sort of Titanium and Diamond alloy, and a sub game from hell would be too much for even the most brutal reincarnation of Frye, which really says alot about prime Nog, moreso than Prime Frye, who is often overlooked for ATG status. Round 2 Fedor - even a prime Coleman would still be prone to getting caught with a sub, which Fedor has proven to be able to get, if anything the Coleman with the best chance to beat Fedor already fought him, he wasn't as good of a fighter, but he was better with subs at that point, and even that wasn't enough. Headbutts would come into play, and that might give Coleman a win, maybe, but the smart bet is on Fedor I would have to say. Mark Colman Mark Kerr Igor - We pretty much saw this, while it wasn't quite prime Kerr, Kerr was always a little too willing to strike with strikers, and that would again bite him in the ass. Randy Couture - Again, we saw a pretty close example of this, and Randy won by being the smarter fighter, with the more technical all around game, Randleman could win, as he can beat anybody, but he probably would fall short again. Kevin Randleman Ricco - I honestly thought Ricco won their fight, it was pretty close to their prime, and Ricco had the game to outgrapple Nog. Nog's only thing close to a sub weakness leglocks (Barnett in 1 and Ricco in ADCC). Ricco is also the better wrestler, which would lead to him winning the fight, likely by decision. Nog Round 3 Fedor - Just a more developed, bigger, more polished Igor, v2 if you would say. Although Igor might land a bomb and end it, thats not the way it would go most of the time. Igor Randy - I don't think the first match was prime Randy, not to take anything away from Ricco, as it was still a very good Randy. But Randy was doing a very good job up until Ricco wore him down physically, which I don't see the new Randy succombing to, add in better striking and Subs, and Randy takes it this time. Ricco Final I think we will see a close approximation of this this (Prime Randy might have been a few years ago) soon enough, and it will be a great fight Ok thats a copout, but logic says Fedor, but I think Randy will win the fight, but since we are doing prime for prime. Fedor - A Fedor who has been facing high level opponants and being busy would probably find a way to win, as much as I love Randy (although I like Fedor nearly as much) Randy Although I think Randy will win this fight if it happens soon, as neither fighter is in their "prime" with Randy getting older and Fedor being so inactive and injured, I think Randy will pull it off in a way similar to Mark Coleman looked good for a while until the sub. I think Randy will dirty box into a takedown, and then keep Fedor on his back, steadily inflicting damage in a controlled pace, while staying out of Fedors explosive subs. Bitch at me all you want.
Top

06-29-2007, 08:12 AM	#5
Smith Monzon-like East Side Guru Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 8,810 vCash: 484	Re: 16 Man Fantasy Tournament Im changing about the match ups a bit to ensure seeding was in place( the way i see fighters) so; -------------------------------------------------------------------- FIRST ROUND Fedor Emelianenko Ken Shamrock Mark Coleman Frank Mir Andrei Arlovski Mark Kerr Bas Rutten Igor Vovchanchyn Kevin Randleman Randy Couture Tim Sylvia Ricco Rodriguez Josh Barnett Maurice Smith Don Frye Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira ----------------------------------------------------------------- SECOND ROUND Fedor Emelianenko Mark Coleman Mark Kerr Igor Vovchanchyn Randy Couture Ricco Rodriguez Josh Barnett Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira ------------------------------------------------------------- SEMIS Fedor Emelianenko Igor Vovchanchyn Randy Couture Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira -------------------------------------------------------------- FINAL Fedor Emelianenko Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
Top

06-29-2007, 10:05 AM	#6
USMCGixxer6 Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Yuma, AZ Posts: 182 vCash: 1000	Re: 16 Man Fantasy Tournament 1st round Fedor Emelianenko-Winner Josh Barnett Mark Coleman-Winner Ken Shamrock Andrei Arlovski Mark Kerr-Winner Bas Rutten-Winner Igor Vovchanchyn Frank Mir Randy Couture-Winner Tim Sylvia Kevin Randleman-Winner, tough to call, but I just dont like Tim, so Im biased on this one Ricco Rodriguez-Winner Maurice Smith Don Frye Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira-Winner, more complete game --------------------------------------------------- 2nd round Fedor-Fedor wins Coleman Mark Kerr-Kerr takes it Bas Couture-Couture Wins Randleman Ricco Big Nog-Big Nog Wins -------------------- Semis Fedor-Fedor Wins Kerr Couture Big Nog-Big Nog wins ----------------------- Finals Fedor Big Nog-Big Nog Wins, Upset, 4th times a charm Last edited by USMCGixxer6; 06-29-2007 at 10:12 AM.
Top

06-29-2007, 03:27 PM	#9
SweetScienceFan Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 234 vCash: 1000	Re: 16 Man Fantasy Tournament By the way, if headbutts were allowed I may have to lean toward prime Coleman beating Fedor. We already know that an old Coleman in their first fight could take him down at will, and even got his back at one point. I could definitely see a prime Coleman taking Fedor down and winning due to cuts caused by headbutts, as Fedor is very prone to bad cuts.
Top

06-29-2007, 05:10 PM	#12
Donut62 Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 727 vCash: 1000	Re: 16 Man Fantasy Tournament I agree with Beebs bracket, but I have Ricco beating Randy and Fedor beating Ricco.
Top