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Old 11-05-2007, 06:54 AM   #31
Bummy Davis
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Default Re: Classic forum opinions on Joe Clazaghe

I had the fight 9-3 Calzage or 8-3-1 if you want to argue, The guy is amazing and the fact that his father knew nothing about boxing, yet this kid has beaten every obstacle put in front of him, he has wanted to fight Jones before Jones brutal Ko loses and he has wanted to fight Hopkins, I have to say Joe is a great fighter...He ruins guys boxing as Kessler said post fight
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Old 11-05-2007, 07:01 AM   #32
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Default Re: Classic forum opinions on Joe Clazaghe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
He should have lost the fight with Robin Reid, as he was constantly hit with right hand after right hand, which staggered him, without giving enough hard punches in return.
I did not know this. The fight was a Split decision win.

judge: Robert Byrd 116-111 for Clazaghe
judge: John Duggan 116-111 for Calzaghe
judge: Paul Thomas 111-116 for Reid

I wonder if this fight was one where Reid landed the harder punches, but Clazaghe threw more. A 5 point difference between the judges is nearly un-acceptable.

I did run through Clazaghe’s record at Box rec. They report he has only been down once in his career as a pro.
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Old 11-05-2007, 07:10 AM   #33
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Default Re: Classic forum opinions on Joe Clazaghe

British commentators had the fight with Reid a draw 115-115 and they were amazed at that difference in the scores too. Final punchstats were given as
Calzaghe 214/618 (34%)
Reid 220/497 (44%)
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Old 11-05-2007, 08:11 AM   #34
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Default Re: Classic forum opinions on Joe Clazaghe

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey
Havent seen the fight ,but I can find no metion of Kesslers jab ,which Senya rated as in the top three of all time,was it a factor?
As most of us realised, Kessler wouldn't be able to use his jab much because Calzaghe used his quick southpaw jab to perfection, circling the one-dimensional Kessler, cutting the distance at times and working inside, neutralizing his straight punches. Kessler couldn't deal with Calzaghes superb ring generalship. The jab was never going to be a factor.

And BTW, Kesslers jab is not even a current top5, let alone an all time top3. Throwing a punch is about much more than throwing fast, sharp and hard - Timing and landing a punch is another story altogether against a fighter of Joe's quality.
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Old 11-05-2007, 08:17 AM   #35
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Default Re: Classic forum opinions on Joe Clazaghe

First round Calzaghe wasn't throwing his jab, and wasn't very effective with his moving in with a flurry either, but Kessler didn't throw that many jabs in this round either. It has nothing to do with Calzaghe's skills. Personally I expected Kessler to throw no less than 40 or 50 jabs per round, he didn't throw anything close to this number even in the first round, where Joe didn't do much.
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Old 11-05-2007, 08:45 AM   #36
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Default Re: Classic forum opinions on Joe Clazaghe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza

I did run through Clazaghe’s record at Box rec. They report he has only been down once in his career as a pro.
Twice. Once v Byron Mitchell and once v Kabary Salem.
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Old 11-05-2007, 09:50 AM   #37
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Default Re: Classic forum opinions on Joe Clazaghe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
First round Calzaghe wasn't throwing his jab, and wasn't very effective with his moving in with a flurry either, but Kessler didn't throw that many jabs in this round either. It has nothing to do with Calzaghe's skills. Personally I expected Kessler to throw no less than 40 or 50 jabs per round, he didn't throw anything close to this number even in the first round, where Joe didn't do much.
It has everything to do with his skills. What do you think it has to do with? Joe being too ugly for Kessler to hit?

In the first round it was apparent that Joe's ring generalship and footspeed would be a big factor in the fight - When Kessler tried to initiate combat Joe would move slightly out of range, come back at an awkward angle and drive Kessler back. It was obvious when Joe had his gloves down around his waist and his head sticking out he was daring Kessler to hit him.

Kessler struggled with the crafty skillful southpaw - He's a one dimensional fighter with a one dimensional punching arsenal. Calzaghe is a multidimensional bag of pugilistic energy.

Kessler wasn't going to throw 40 or 50 jabs around because Joe wouldn't let him. He had the most success when he let Joe come forward and bombed him with uppercuts at midrange, not when he jabbed off of the frontfoot. That was the key for him, establishing the jab, sadly Joe was too good a fighter for him to do that.
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Old 11-05-2007, 11:42 AM   #38
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Default Re: Classic forum opinions on Joe Clazaghe

Joe's an excellent fighter by anyone's standards and it's hard to see someone totally dominate him because of his all round ability and ring craftmanship.
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Old 11-05-2007, 02:45 PM   #39
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Default Re: Classic forum opinions on Joe Clazaghe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizzle
It has everything to do with his skills. What do you think it has to do with? Joe being too ugly for Kessler to hit?
You should watch more fights of Kessler, then you'll have no questions.
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Old 11-05-2007, 08:48 PM   #40
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Default Re: Classic forum opinions on Joe Clazaghe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
You should watch more fights of Kessler, then you'll have no questions.
I have watched Kessler Vs Mundine, Beyer, Andrade, possibly his three best opponents and he performed very well in all three fights - But they are not Joe Calzaghe.
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Old 11-05-2007, 08:59 PM   #41
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Default Re: Classic forum opinions on Joe Clazaghe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
I did not know this. The fight was a Split decision win.

judge: Robert Byrd 116-111 for Clazaghe
judge: John Duggan 116-111 for Calzaghe
judge: Paul Thomas 111-116 for Reid

I wonder if this fight was one where Reid landed the harder punches, but Clazaghe threw more. A 5 point difference between the judges is nearly un-acceptable.

I did run through Clazaghe’s record at Box rec. They report he has only been down once in his career as a pro.
No, actually, Calzaghe was down against both Byron Mitchell and Kabary Salem.
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Old 11-06-2007, 12:00 AM   #42
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Default Re: Classic forum opinions on Joe Clazaghe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizzle
I have watched Kessler Vs Mundine, Beyer, Andrade, possibly his three best opponents and he performed very well in all three fights - But they are not Joe Calzaghe.
They aren't, but the point is he's doubles and triples his jabs most of the time, Calzaghe was right in front of him, yet he was throwing one jab at a time only. That's not typical for him, whatever reasons, it wasn't because of what Calzaghe was doing to him, personally I saw plenty of opportunities for his jab or at least double it in several cases, without much danger.
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Old 11-06-2007, 04:48 AM   #43
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Default Re: Classic forum opinions on Joe Clazaghe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
They aren't, but the point is he's doubles and triples his jabs most of the time, Calzaghe was right in front of him, yet he was throwing one jab at a time only. That's not typical for him, whatever reasons, it wasn't because of what Calzaghe was doing to him, personally I saw plenty of opportunities for his jab or at least double it in several cases, without much danger.
It was because he could barely land the first jab, due to Calzaghe moving out of range. If he found Calzaghe in his range he tended to quickly follow with a right cross bomb, and I don't blame him as his tactic worked, he just wasn't good enough in the end.

Doubling and tripling up on the jab is much more effective against a flatfooted fighter with little counterpunching ability, Calzaghe is anything but.
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Old 11-06-2007, 05:27 AM   #44
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Default Re: Classic forum opinions on Joe Clazaghe

We are going in circles. Like I said, I saw plenty of opportunities for doubling and trippling of jab (say, one or two range-finders and one on target). He didn't attempt this even once that I saw it. Calzaghe didn't move out of range, he slipped several of them, but he still stayed within the jabbing range.
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Old 11-06-2007, 06:24 AM   #45
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Default Re: Classic forum opinions on Joe Clazaghe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
We are going in circles. Like I said, I saw plenty of opportunities for doubling and trippling of jab (say, one or two range-finders and one on target). He didn't attempt this even once that I saw it. Calzaghe didn't move out of range, he slipped several of them, but he still stayed within the jabbing range.
He did move out of range, he also slipped and cut the range on occassion.

Calzaghe showed he had the better use of the jab, better use of the ring, and virtually bamboozled Kessler who really only had success when Joe rushed inside.
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