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Old 11-06-2007, 04:18 PM   #31
Senya13
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Where did Foreman need "quite some" punches to stop Chuvalo? He needed only a few clean hard shots to the head.
Frazier glass jaw? Huh?
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Old 11-07-2007, 06:47 AM   #32
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I think Bummy Davis meant a 3 asin 1 is best and 10 is worst-scale.



Funny how a non-puncher like Ali get's a 7 out of 10 by most and what does Frazier, someone who has something like 27 KO's out of 32 wins get? Goes to show you how overrated Ali's power is.


Going into the Ali and Foreman fights, Frazier was mentioned as being a hard puncher, of a caliber that Ali hadn't fought for years and Foreman never had.

I wouldn't say he's a big one-punch KO type of puncher but he carried a hard punch nonetheless. I would give him a 7 or an 8. To give a reference, i would rate Lewis/Tyson/Shavers/Marciano a 10, Byrd a 2 and Ali a 4.
Sorry I misunderstood, yes I would put Frazier at 7- or
8 10 being the best
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Old 11-07-2007, 05:19 PM   #33
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius

I wouldn't say he's a big one-punch KO type of puncher but he carried a hard punch nonetheless. I would give him a 7 or an 8. To give a reference, i would rate Lewis/Tyson/Shavers/Marciano a 10, Byrd a 2 and Ali a 4.
What?

Ali hit harder than Lewis/Tyson/Shavers/Marciano?
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Old 11-07-2007, 07:55 PM   #34
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

If Frazer had a clean opening, and hit you well, you were out of there. Even George Foreman said that Frazier missed with a left and if it had hit him, he would have been knocked out.

But if you never give Joe a clean opening, even half-tags from Joe to the gut and body would eventually break down MOST people, obviously Ali etc could take this kind of punishment. A good example is Jimmy Ellis, he had the skills to outbox and slick out Frazier, but Joe's firepower was too great, and brought him down.
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:39 PM   #35
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

All interesting observations, but I would give Frazier a solid 7 out of 10. He was accurate and he was a very sharp puncher; he cut guys up. He turned alot of faces into hamburger meat. He was definitely a master of inflicting facial damage. Maybe not a one-punch knockout artist, but a hurtful, sharp puncher (with the left hook). By the way, Foreman and Shavers: 10, Liston, Tyson, Lewis: 9, Louis: 8, Marciano: 7, Holmes: 6, Ali: 5
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Old 11-07-2007, 09:18 PM   #36
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Marciano only a 7? IMO he should be at least an 8.5.
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Old 11-07-2007, 09:28 PM   #37
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
Would you classify him as an attrition type of KO puncher, or more of one punch KO artists?
Well, the majority of his major knockouts were of the attrition variety, but he was certainly capable of producing some brutal single shots and barrages. Watch, for example, the Mathis KO, where Mathis hasn't been in trouble before and they're in the middle of a pretty nondescript round when one extremely short, sudden hook drops Mathis like a rock.

Quote:
On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the hardest and 1 being a feather fisted puncher, what number would you give Frazier?
I'd say something like an 8.5-9.
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Old 11-07-2007, 11:11 PM   #38
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1234
Marciano only a 7? IMO he should be at least an 8.5.

How many one-punch blastouts does he have? One or two? He's much like Frazier except he is a heavy puncher; he takes a while to grind his man down too- and he didn't hit any harder than Frazier, he just did it with both hands.
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Old 11-08-2007, 12:01 AM   #39
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

7 or 8
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Old 11-08-2007, 12:53 AM   #40
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Tyson would be a 9 to me, Foreman a 8.5, Louis, Dempsey, Liston a 8. A 10 is only Tua and Shavers.
Tua and Shavers KO ratio against top competition sucks. Their power is overrated IMO
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Old 11-08-2007, 03:08 AM   #41
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

7.5 out of ten in my book.....
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Old 11-08-2007, 03:24 AM   #42
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

I think pre-exile Ali is much better than a 4 on power. I would say more like a 7, although I concede that more than other HWsm more of the effect of his punches was a cumulative product of timing, placement and previous attrition rather than brute force.

Ali stopped most of his opponents inside the distance, and of those he didnt some were deliberately carried (e.g. Terrell) and some were ATG rock chinned (e.g. Chuvalo).

I agree that Frazier scores better than Ali on this metric though, around 7.5-8. I would say Frazier chose to throw at full power more often than Ali, so I guess you have to build intention into the shots. Ali would often favour crispness and elusiveness over full power.

I guess it comes down to potential power versus actual power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I think Bummy Davis meant a 3 asin 1 is best and 10 is worst-scale.



Funny how a non-puncher like Ali get's a 7 out of 10 by most and what does Frazier, someone who has something like 27 KO's out of 32 wins get? Goes to show you how overrated Ali's power is.


Going into the Ali and Foreman fights, Frazier was mentioned as being a hard puncher, of a caliber that Ali hadn't fought for years and Foreman never had.

I wouldn't say he's a big one-punch KO type of puncher but he carried a hard punch nonetheless. I would give him a 7 or an 8. To give a reference, i would rate Lewis/Tyson/Shavers/Marciano a 10, Byrd a 2 and Ali a 4.
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Old 11-08-2007, 05:44 AM   #43
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

What I will say is that for a man who did not hit hard he certainly did some damage to George Chuvalo's frontal bones.
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Old 11-08-2007, 08:31 AM   #44
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
4 or 5 out of 10. Average punching power, requiering tens or hundreds of clean punches to stop an opponent.
not reallyhe used other punches to make openigns for his left hook.

watch the quarry fight you can see how much use he is has for that right hand throwing uppercuts , crosses and then mixing it up to the body.

then when you dont expect it he throws his left hook on the chin and you either go down or stay up and take more punishment.

he was a big hitter but his style didnt use this abilty. he was a relentless fighter staying right under your chin throwing far more punches than you and throwing more venom on every punch.

people make out that he was a head hunter...he coudl do that but he was a body puncher first and formost. and threw a bunch of punches anywhere where there was an opening.
his whole plan was to fire the same amount of punches from the round before thus making it impossible to stay on par with him on punch output.

then around the mid rounds he started to smoke and just seemed to keeping throwing bombs non stop hhurting and banging slowly breakiong down his opponant.

can he punch? yes very much so. does he use it effectivly? no, he is a pressure fighter first and a puncher 2nd this is why he couldnt do anything to foreman becuase foreman didnt go the distance he finsihed there and then and it was a real bad mix for joe.

look at any stock joe frazier footage and you will se a stunning ko at the end im sure
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Old 11-08-2007, 08:44 AM   #45
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Harry Greb or Ricky Hatton can punch too. Do they use it effectively? No. That's why they are not considered to have a hard punch, only average punching power.
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