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Old 11-08-2007, 05:45 PM   #46
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

7/10.
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Old 11-09-2007, 12:58 AM   #47
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I think Bummy Davis meant a 3 asin 1 is best and 10 is worst-scale.



Funny how a non-puncher like Ali get's a 7 out of 10 by most and what does Frazier, someone who has something like 27 KO's out of 32 wins get? Goes to show you how overrated Ali's power is.


Going into the Ali and Foreman fights, Frazier was mentioned as being a hard puncher, of a caliber that Ali hadn't fought for years and Foreman never had.

I wouldn't say he's a big one-punch KO type of puncher but he carried a hard punch nonetheless. I would give him a 7 or an 8. To give a reference, i would rate Lewis/Tyson/Shavers/Marciano a 10, Byrd a 2 and Ali a 4.
When Ali met Frazier in the fight of the century he was 31-0-0 with 25 stoppages against all the best of the sixties. That's over 80%. He had decent power (maybe 6.5-7) but there's more ways than power to stop your opponent.
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:02 AM   #48
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Tyson would be a 9 to me, Foreman a 8.5, Louis, Dempsey, Liston a 8. A 10 is only Tua and Shavers.
I'm not sure how you can have Tyson hitting harder than Foreman.

I would put your whole list between 8.5 and 9.5.

I would reserve the 10 for some as yet undiscovered puncher who will KO folks with his jab.
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Old 11-09-2007, 02:09 AM   #49
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

If everyone gets such high marks, there's no point to have a 10-point scale anymore, make it a 5-point scale.
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Old 11-09-2007, 03:21 AM   #50
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
If everyone gets such high marks, there's no point to have a 10-point scale anymore, make it a 5-point scale.

Nt everyone.

Your list his some of the alltime big hitters.

However, I agree that a five point scale would be more useful.
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Old 11-09-2007, 03:29 AM   #51
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Well for me, even 10-point scale is not enough, and I have to use half-points to separate two punchers with similar, but not quite the same punching power.
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Old 11-09-2007, 04:27 AM   #52
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Well for me, even 10-point scale is not enough, and I have to use half-points to separate two punchers with similar, but not quite the same punching power.

The reason I would go with a five point scale is that it would put boxers in categories rather than try to get too precise.


E.g.
I would have Lewis and Tyson in the same category, a level above Peter and Briggs.
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Old 11-09-2007, 04:38 AM   #53
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

It's more fun to argue more precise ratings.
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Old 11-09-2007, 05:00 AM   #54
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
It's more fun to argue more precise ratings.
Possibly.

But also more difficult to get consensus.
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Old 11-09-2007, 05:13 AM   #55
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

What consensus? Such things are purely subjective. They are for fun only, it's pointless to be looking for any consensus here.
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:47 AM   #56
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

If you compare him to the likes of Lewis (or even Tyson), then he is not in the same league.
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:34 AM   #57
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Well at least this thread has totally confirmed my belief Frazier is one of the most underrated hitters per modern poster ever.
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Old 11-09-2007, 09:09 AM   #58
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad Spencer
Frazier is overrated. Remember, he ducked big fearsome punchers like Amos Lincoln, Leotis Martin, Earnie Shavers, Ron Lyle (even though he never KO'd a world class opponent, he's still a fearsome puncher because he's big and went to jail), etc. Plus he ducked the guys that beat these guys.

Bob Stallings KO2 Joe Duckzier.
it is funny you say that. when ron lyle retired a reporter asked him if he had regrets for not fighting smokin' joe frazier. lyle's replied, no, not at all, "frazier was a bad man."

i'd give frazier an 8.5. his left hook was very powerful with FEW exceptions like cooney who hit harder WITH the left. even the left hooks of lewis or tyson or foreman were not BETTER imho (we're not talking about other punches). i know a lot will disagree with this.

IF you don't believe this...consider that frazier was crippled with having only one eye. FOR this reason, he relied so heavily on the left hook and didn't emphasize his other type of punches as much. and YET, look how far he went as a puncher. that is a testament to his power. don't hold it against him for being attrition. he wasn't a head hunter as he said to ali, "i'll get your body and get the head later". he took his time and was very effective. the man lost only to foreman & ali - pretty impressive.
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Old 11-09-2007, 09:18 AM   #59
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobgoblin
it is funny you say that. when ron lyle retired a reporter asked him if he had regrets for not fighting smokin' joe frazier. lyle's replied, no, not at all, "frazier was a bad man."

i'd give frazier an 8.5. his left hook was very powerful with FEW exceptions like cooney who hit harder WITH the left. even the left hooks of lewis or tyson or foreman were not BETTER imho (we're not talking about other punches). i know a lot will disagree with this.

IF you don't believe this...consider that frazier was crippled with having only one eye. FOR this reason, he relied so heavily on the left hook and didn't emphasize his other type of punches as much. and YET, look how far he went as a puncher. that is a testament to his power. don't hold it against him for being attrition. he wasn't a head hunter as he said to ali, "i'll get your body and get the head later". he took his time and was very effective. the man lost only to foreman & ali - pretty impressive.
Now there's a top post.
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Old 11-09-2007, 10:13 AM   #60
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Default Re: Joe Frazier as a puncher.

When evaluating Frazier as a puncher, we need to look at not only his actual power, but the incredible hand speed and accuracy as well. Joe was probably one of the most complete punchers in the division's history when it came to these specific attributes. No he was not the all around great combination puncher that Joe Louis was, but he certainly had arguably the best heavyweight left hook of all time, and the ability to make it land often. Joe could beat a guy by ripping him to pieces over many rounds, or pund him to submission early on. He could also take you to the scorecards, and pick up a win that way to. In terms of actual power, I don't know where I'd rate him. Its virtually impossible to determine who had greater power than who, except by viewing their performances against various opponents, which can be misleading as well. The point is that Joe was a pure puncher with speed, stamina, precision, and upper body movement that was off the charts for a heavyweight.

A truly remarkable fighter, and one that we will not likely see a duplicate of ever again.
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