Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-06-2007, 03:06 PM   #16
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,104
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Joe Louis treated so poorly by the IRS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmt
educate me on this case
The truth is Uncle Sam should have pardoned Joe Louis. Louis never had any sour grapes about owing his taxes. He said, " If they say I owe it, I owe it "

Louis was a poor money manager.
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-06-2007, 03:41 PM   #17
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,366
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Joe Louis treated so poorly by the IRS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmt
educate me on this case
I think he got off lightly he should have gone to prison for tax evasion really.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2007, 04:14 PM   #18
Chaney
Mystery and Imagination
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Starving in the belly of a whale
Posts: 259
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Joe Louis treated so poorly by the IRS?

Louis was treated appallingly by the IRS. They were wilfully blind to any sense of justice and utterly heartless.

Anybody in the IRS or the Government with a heart and even a sliver of imagination would have said "Hey, all that money we're hunting down ol' Joe for...can't we write it off against the all money he voluntarily gave us to fight the war and save US lives?

Wasn't Joe a national inspiration and symbol in beating the German symbol Schmelling? Didn't he support the US during the war in every way he could?"


Yeah, Joe was a fool with his money...but his fund raising efforts should have earnt him respect and mercy from the powers that be.

It's like someone in need being helped out by a generous neighbour, but when that good Samaritan needs a helping hand, the recipient saying "not my problem - the idiot should have managed his money better."
Chaney is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2007, 06:34 PM   #19
Chaney
Mystery and Imagination
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Starving in the belly of a whale
Posts: 259
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Joe Louis treated so poorly by the IRS?

And furthermore, the hounding of Louis by the IRS doesn't exactly encourage anybody else to be a patriot and give voluntarily to the government, does it?
Chaney is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2007, 07:10 PM   #20
Sizzle
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 647
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Joe Louis treated so poorly by the IRS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
You do not think that charging sombody tax on money that have donated to the government is treating them poorley.

He could have kept the money for himself and not paid a cent in taxes.
So you're saying the government charged him tax because he was Joe Louis? You don't think any heavyweight champion would've had money sucked out of them by the IRS?
Sizzle is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2007, 07:12 PM   #21
Vanboxingfan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 4,244
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Joe Louis treated so poorly by the IRS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
You do not think that charging sombody tax on money that have donated to the government is treating them poorley.

He could have kept the money for himself and not paid a cent in taxes.
This are pretty confusing statements, as I prepare tax returns for a living.

Where to begin. Point one is that the government and a charity are two distinct entities, they aren't one and the same. Secondly, if he kept the money, why wouldn't he have to pay tax on it? It was earned income and therefore it would be taxable. He would be able to deduct fees he paid to him trainers, managers etc, to go from gross income to taxable income.

I'm not sure if charitable donations existed back then, but if they did, he should have gotten credit for this. But it does seem to me he didn't get very good tax advice and they probably could have withheld some of his purse and sent in the taxes on his behalf. It would have been in his best interest to do this.
Vanboxingfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2007, 07:22 PM   #22
Vanboxingfan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 4,244
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Joe Louis treated so poorly by the IRS?

Actually the more I read this thread, the more convinced I am that he simply received bad tax advice, or more likely none at all. Certainly a tax advisor could have said "look Joe, the rules are as follows, if you donate this money to charity you'll have to pay tax on it and you'll be worse off then if you never fought at all. Why don't you put aside 20-25% of it for taxes and donate the difference"

If someone had said that to him, he would have been fine. I'm Canadian so it could work a little differently here, but at least where I live the revenue agency (ie IRS equivalent) can't ignore or change the tax rules, they merely inforce what the laws are. And the law is that you have to pay tax on your taxable income. So the IRS certainly wasn't at fault in this situation. The blame lies squarely on his advisors, who told him (or he may have suggested it himself) to donate this to charity without checking the tax consequences of such an idea. Hard to know what the purpose of advisors would be if they aren't going to do these type of basic things on his behalf. I'm pretty sure he paid them enough for this type of advice.
Vanboxingfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 12:11 AM   #23
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,366
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Joe Louis treated so poorly by the IRS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
During the war Joe Louis defended his title twice and fought 93 exhibitions to raise money for the army and navy releif funds. He never saw a penny of any of these purses and the bouts were billed as being to raise money for these charities. Louis raised so much money for the army and navy releif funds that they could not spend it all.

Then they turned round years after the event and demanded that he pay taxes on these purses on a technicality. By any measure it was grosley unreasonable.

No maybe Louis would have squandered the money anyway but that is no excuse to screw him. At the verry least his childrens trust funds which they seized would have remained intact even if he had ended up homeless.
It isnt widely known but in both the fights that Louis donated his purses,[to the Army and Navy releif funds] both his opponents,Abe Simon ,and Buddy Baer ,donated a % of their purses.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 12:30 AM   #24
albinored
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: World Citizen
Posts: 406
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Joe Louis treated so poorly by the IRS?

The IRS is a fascist organization. That's the short answer. As written above, he fought Simon and Buddy Baer for free for the Army and Navy Relief funds (and as the time the Navy was a known racist branch of the military. This is not name calling, it's historical fact.) The kicker is that the IRS nazis didn't come after Louis until AFTER the war, which is when it arbitrairily decided those purse were taxable in part after all. The hounded him so badlyh that every time he fought after the war those purses were of course income. so the more he earned the more he owed.

When they had bled him dry they still tried to couge him, until his wife, who was a lawyer simply told him to quit earning a dime, and his friends, mostly Frank Sinatra just saw to it that he could fly anywhere, stay anywhere and not have to pick up a tab.

Finally the IRS just gave up.

Yes he was a big spender, yes he handled his money badly (in his case a lot of it was simply generosity,) and yes he got bad advice, but that's no excuse for the blood suckers to have done what they did.

McVey....Louis FILED his tax returns, which is the legal obligation, so he was not guilty of tax evasion.

hey...damned generous of Buddy Baer with that dieduction for less than three minutes work.
albinored is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 03:32 AM   #25
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,088
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Joe Louis treated so poorly by the IRS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizzle
So you're saying the government charged him tax because he was Joe Louis? You don't think any heavyweight champion would've had money sucked out of them by the IRS?
What I am saying is that it is unusual for sombody to be charged tax on money that they yhave donated to the government. It is in effect charging sombody tax on their taxes.

If Louis had dotted the i's and crossed the t's corectly he would have been OK but they found a loophole and screwed him.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 03:39 AM   #26
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,088
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Joe Louis treated so poorly by the IRS?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanboxingfan
This are pretty confusing statements, as I prepare tax returns for a living.

Where to begin. Point one is that the government and a charity are two distinct entities,
Not in the case of the army navy releif fund.

Quote:
they aren't one and the same. Secondly, if he kept the money, why wouldn't he have to pay tax on it? It was earned income and therefore it would be taxable.
He would have to pay a percentage of the purse in tax. As it was he gave the entire purse including the portion that would have been paid in tax to the army and navy releif fund and was then charged tax on top of that. He did not receive any portion of the purse as income.

Quote:
But it does seem to me he didn't get very good tax advice and they probably could have withheld some of his purse and sent in the taxes on his behalf. It would have been in his best interest to do this.
An astute acountant would have arranged for the purses to be paid directly to the army and navy releif fund so that Louis never even theoreticaly held them. As it was the money was paid to him and he paid it to the army and navy releif fund directly.

This 30 seconds when he nominaly held the money was the loophole under which he was taxed on it.

Last edited by janitor; 11-07-2007 at 04:53 AM.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 03:40 AM   #27
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,088
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Joe Louis treated so poorly by the IRS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey
It isnt widely known but in both the fights that Louis donated his purses,[to the Army and Navy releif funds] both his opponents,Abe Simon ,and Buddy Baer ,donated a % of their purses.
I think Buddy Baer donated his entire purse if I am not mistaken. Billy Conn also gave a portion of the purse from his title fight with Louis.

Louis was esentialy a nationalised heavyweight champion for the duration of the war.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 08:06 AM   #28
joe33
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Why was Joe Louis treated so poorly by the IRS?

Dont like to seem racist here,bug im sure a lot white guys no matter how nice louis was and he was that indeed,did not like the fact he was knocking **** out of a lot of white boys.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 12:19 PM   #29
Titan1
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,872
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Joe Louis treated so poorly by the IRS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duodenum
Because he donated his entire purse from his rematch with Buddy Baer to the Navy Relief Fund, and then his entire purse from the Abe Simon rematch to the Army Relief Fund. "NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED." It's his own fault. If he'd successfully helped the Axis powers to defeat the United States instead, he would not have had to worry about being hassled by the United States IRS. If the United States had prevailed in WW II regardless of his support or lack thereof, then he would have been far better off not helping his country at all. (How could he possibly have been any worse off?)

The concept of "patriotism" is always a tool used by the always unpatriotic power elite to manipulate and coerce loyalty from the naive and oppressed populace.
Amen to that, brother.
Titan1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 01:53 PM   #30
ralphc
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,177
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why was Joe Louis treated so poorly by the IRS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmt
educate me on this case

In his biography Joe Louis explains how he gave control of some of his earnings to a finacial manager who, in effect, robbed him. Donations to the war effort were only a small part of the taxes that were not remitted. You also have to remember that the income tax department has usurious interest rates and that is why his tax bill got so high.
ralphc is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013