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Old 11-08-2007, 04:37 PM   #16
smokin joe
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Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

the no mas fight was a fix all duran did was stand in the middle of the ring and look at leanord
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Old 11-08-2007, 10:47 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy
I haven't seen the fight, but read plenty about it. One thing I don't understand is how a lot of people seem to just explain Duran's giving up away as some mistake, like it was a do-over or something, and don't fault him for it. This is just wrong. It was a huge fight, and he should have lived up to the name he tried so hard and so long to make. No excuses here. This is boxing. You're either a tough guy or you aren't. Most of the excuses for Duran are made up by the Leonard haters anyway, so you have to take their talk with that grain of salt I guess.
Not necessarily.

I was never a big fan of Leonard but he was one of the best, possibly the best of his era.

That said, Duran took the rematch at a time of Leonard's choosing and was using novel methods to make the weight, having ballooned between fights, novel methods that included laxatives.

Some think he quit because he BADLY needed a shit. Toughness isn't part of the thinking in such a situation.

Some go so far as to suggest that he began the shit just before he quit.
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Old 11-08-2007, 10:50 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

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Originally Posted by cuchulain
Not necessarily.

I was never a big fan of Leonard but he was one of the best, possibly the best of his era.

That said, Duran took the rematch at a time of Leonard's choosing and was using novel methods to make the weight, having ballooned between fights, novel methods that included laxatives.

Some think he quit because he BADLY needed a shit. Toughness isn't part of the thinking in such a situation.

Some go so far as to suggest that he began the shit just before he quit.
I too have heard the bowel thing.

Could be true.
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:13 PM   #19
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Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy
I haven't seen the fight, but read plenty about it. One thing I don't understand is how a lot of people seem to just explain Duran's giving up away as some mistake, like it was a do-over or something, and don't fault him for it. This is just wrong. It was a huge fight, and he should have lived up to the name he tried so hard and so long to make. No excuses here. This is boxing. You're either a tough guy or you aren't. Most of the excuses for Duran are made up by the Leonard haters anyway, so you have to take their talk with that grain of salt I guess.
For the truth behind this story see Randy Gordon's account of no mas. Duran was sabotaged by Leonard's camp taking advantage of his weight because they knew they couldn't win it any other way.
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:14 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

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Originally Posted by cuchulain
Not necessarily.

I was never a big fan of Leonard but he was one of the best, possibly the best of his era.
He wasn't. He was just built up that way.
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:36 PM   #21
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Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster
He wasn't. He was just built up that way.
Suuuuuuuuuure he was.

Leonard TKO 8 Duran
Leonard TKO 14 Hearns
Leonard SD 12 Hagler
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:55 PM   #22
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Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

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Originally Posted by hellfire_508
Suuuuuuuuuure he was.

Leonard TKO 8 Duran
Leonard TKO 14 Hearns
Leonard SD 12 Hagler
Only the Hearns fight can be counted as legitimate since Ray didn't really beat Hagler and needed a jo-jo guerra type from down south to get him a win when he didn't deserve it. Oh I forgot he was fighting an old man who couldn't fight anymore and couldn't lay a glove on any of his sparring partners.

Duran had a case of the shits so where does that leave Leonard?

Well, not with much but at least he has that nice win over Benitez and Hearns. And a shiny gold medal that he won at montreal. And the picture in the sock..the kind of story that gives Farhood a big hard on.

He can also brag about it to his grandkids the fact that he survived a beating from Terry Norris, a 3-1 underdog. He's a grandfather you know.
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:58 PM   #23
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Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Leonard TKO 8 Duran
Leonard TKO 14 Hearns
Leonard SD 12 Hagler
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Old 11-09-2007, 12:47 AM   #24
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Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster
He wasn't. He was just built up that way.

You and I have been over this ground at length.

No point in rehashing.

IMO, Leonard was great but I prefer Duran and IMO, Duran was just a shade greater.
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Old 11-09-2007, 06:09 AM   #25
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Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Camacho KO 5 Leonard

Hearns W 12 Leonard

Hagler W 12 Leonard

Norris W 12 Leonard

Duran W 15 Leonard

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Old 11-09-2007, 07:30 AM   #26
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Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
The very best score anyone could give for Duran fairly and objectively would be down 5 rounds to 2 (68-65) or 4 rounds to 3 (67-66).

I think even the biggest Duran fans on here, Stonehands, Nick Hudson, and myself among others, would freely admit Duran was behind on points at the time of the stoppage.


I saw the fight live at the time and actually thought that Duran was slightly ahead when he quit. I saw it in a 5000 seat mmovie theatre. There was no feeling by anyone that Leonard was dominating the fight. At the time it was considered a dull fight with not alot happening between two fighters who reslly didn't want to fight. Now watching it its obvious that Leonatd was slightly ahread but it was still a very close fight. I think some people who judge that Leonard was way ahead do so because they know the outcome so it effects their judgement on the scoring. I believe this happens in most fights when people know the outcome.
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:08 PM   #27
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Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokin joe
duran was totally out of shape he didnt come to win just look and leanord smiling in the corner after the second round, and look and durans eyes looking for a way out as soon as the bell rang
This is correct , but this isn't the subject, but still , people can't be giving that many even rounds , if any .
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Old 11-09-2007, 02:48 PM   #28
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Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster
Camacho KO 5 Leonard

Hearns W 12 Leonard

Hagler W 12 Leonard

Norris W 12 Leonard

Duran W 15 Leonard

Two wrong. Leonard W12 Hagler, and Hearns D12 Leonard.
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Old 11-09-2007, 02:51 PM   #29
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Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

Quote:
Originally Posted by arther1045
I saw the fight live at the time and actually thought that Duran was slightly ahead when he quit.

Now watching it its obvious that Leonatd was slightly ahread but it was still a very close fight.
Which one is it?
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Old 11-09-2007, 04:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: Ray Leonard makes Roberto Duran quit

That is the point. It was very close despite Duran being weak and having stomach cramps. Watch the interviews on you tube. A doctor verified Duran's stomache ache. There is video of the corner applying some kind of ice pack and Duran expectd a rematch when he was healthier.

It is funny how no one looks down at Marcel Cerdan for quitting with a broken shoulder against LaMotta.
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