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Old 11-30-2010, 03:18 PM   #16
The Mongoose
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
as journeyman George Chuvalo - that is what he was viewed as at the time - it's only nowadays with the revisionist historians who have made Chuvalo into something he really wasn't
History Revisionists are not the reason Ring ranked George Chuvalo #5 in the world going into the Ali fight and was a top 10 regular for most of the decade.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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Again using terms like he was a top 5 fighter carries no weight at all - if the top 5 were pretty shoddy anyway

Top 5 in 1965:

1. Sonny Liston
2. Floyd Patterson
3. Ernie Terrell
4. Cleveland Williams
5. George Chuvalo

A pretty strong class, I'd say.

Men Chuvalo was ranked above: Folley, Machen(who your pal is claiming Ali ducked), Jones, and Mildenberger.

And no, Henry Cooper was ranked in the top 5 after upsetting Folley in the best performance of his career. Pretty ****ing deserving. He was never top 5 when Ali beat him, but good wins over a crafty dangerous vet.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

Dont forget the reigning WBA champion Ernie Terrel who was unbeaten in 5 years including wins over Jones, Foster, Chuvalo, Williams and Folley. And also his title winning effort over your supposedly deserving Eddie Machen
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:24 PM   #19
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

Whatever you might think about the era, activity as champion trumps strength of era every time.

There is nothing easy about making regular title defences against elite opposition.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:24 PM   #20
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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History Revisionists are not the reason Ring ranked George Chuvalo #5 in the world going into the Ali fight and was a top 10 regular for most of the decade.
Again being top 5 or top 10 doesn't really mean that you automatically pass go - fact is he still lost to Joe Erskine which is a remarkably poor result for someone who mixed it with the likes of Ali/Frazier/Foreman - anyone who loses to Joe Erskine is simply not that great a fighter at world level unfortunately - Floyd Patterson was ridiculed in his reign for fighting the likes of Rademacher - but Chuvalo LOST to Radamacher so what does that say about him??
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:27 PM   #21
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

Whats the definitive story about Pattersons back, I heard he had back troubles, but that could vary from slight to severe to not being able to get out of bed. Was Ali picking on someone who couldn't get out of bed?
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:27 PM   #22
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

When during this period did Machen deserve a shot???
From his loss to Patterson in 64 until mid 66 he didnt win a bout then lost to Frazier at the end of 66
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:30 PM   #23
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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Originally Posted by The Mongoose View Post
Top 5 in 1965:

1. Sonny Liston
2. Floyd Patterson
3. Ernie Terrell
4. Cleveland Williams
5. George Chuvalo

A pretty strong class, I'd say.

Men Chuvalo was ranked above: Folley, Machen(who your pal is claiming Ali ducked), Jones, and Mildenberger.

And no, Henry Cooper was ranked in the top 5 after upsetting Folley in the best performance of his career. Pretty ****ing deserving. He was never top 5 when Ali beat him, but good wins over a crafty dangerous vet.
That Top 5 of yours

1. Sonny Liston - BOGUS FIGHT
2. Floyd Patterson - SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN IN THE RING WITH THAT INJURY
3. Ernie Terrell - no redeeming features as a fighter really/pretty ordinary
4. Cleveland Williams - completely shot - and LITERALLY SHOT
5. George Chuvalo - LOST TO JOE ERSKINE

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Old 11-30-2010, 03:31 PM   #24
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
That Top 5 of yours

1. Sonny Liston - BOGUS FIGHT
2. Floyd Patterson - SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN IN THE RING WITH THAT INJURY
3. Ernie Terrell - no redeeming features as a fighter really/pretty ordinary
4. Cleveland Williams - completely shot - and LITERALLY SHOT
5. George Chuvalo - LOST TO JOE ERSKINE

So who would you have had him fight?
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:31 PM   #25
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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Whats the definitive story about Pattersons back, I heard he had back troubles, but that could vary from slight to severe to not being able to get out of bed. Was Ali picking on someone who couldn't get out of bed?
Have you never seen the fight?? He could barely stand up straight It was a torture of a cripple basically and thats being kind
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:33 PM   #26
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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So who would you have had him fight?
Thats not the issue - the issue is it wasn't the most stellar reign - to the contrary it was pretty lame really - Ali was a great great fighter don't get me wrong but we do have to be realistic aswell
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:34 PM   #27
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
Again being top 5 or top 10 doesn't really mean that you automatically pass go - fact is he still lost to Joe Erskine which is a remarkably poor result for someone who mixed it with the likes of Ali/Frazier/Foreman - anyone who loses to Joe Erskine is simply not that great a fighter at world level unfortunately - Floyd Patterson was ridiculed in his reign for fighting the likes of Rademacher - but Chuvalo LOST to Radamacher so what does that say about him??
Because when a guy fights 13 times in 2 years, a single upset loss isn't enough to negate an overall strong run that saw him mix it up with the elite and score a big win over a top 3 fighter in Jones.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:38 PM   #28
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
Again being top 5 or top 10 doesn't really mean that you automatically pass go

This is true, Henry Cooper spent a short time at #1 in the 60s, which sums up what an average era it was.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:38 PM   #29
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
That Top 5 of yours

1. Sonny Liston - BOGUS FIGHT
2. Floyd Patterson - SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN IN THE RING WITH THAT INJURY
3. Ernie Terrell - no redeeming features as a fighter really/pretty ordinary
4. Cleveland Williams - completely shot - and LITERALLY SHOT
5. George Chuvalo - LOST TO JOE ERSKINE


Of mine? Of Ring Magazine.

1. Sonny Liston-Got dropped clean.
2. Floyd Patterson-I think his back is getting exaggerated.
3. Ernie Terrell-Bullshit. Guy had a killer jab and some great wins.
4. Cleveland Williams-He would fall out of the rankings the following year..after he was actually shot, you twat. Don't you know anything?
5. George Chuvalo-But beat #3 Jones and pushed Patterson to the limit.

Last edited by The Mongoose; 11-30-2010 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:41 PM   #30
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh View Post
This is true, Henry Cooper spent a short time at #1 in the 60s, which sums up what an average era it was.
He was never #1.
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