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Old 11-30-2010, 03:43 PM   #31
Il Duce
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

Finally, we have a great thread going.

It's turning into a George Chuvalo thread.
It was the Toronto, Canada money that got that fight, nothing else.
Ali took the easy cash.
George was 34-11-2 entering that bout, and had lost to Ernie Terrell
and Eduardo Corletti, sandwiched around a win over ? in his previous
3-bouts.
How good was Eduardo Corletti. Up to his fight with Chuvalo, he was
11-2-5 (8 KO's).
Was 2-2-4 in his previous 8 fights, and was nowhere in sight in the rankings. Not even in Top 30.

Now Eddie Machen was on the down-side of his career, but he still
was a more capable fighter than George Chuvalo.
Lets make it easier,
Why didn't Cassius Clay fight Eddie Machen in 1963.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:43 PM   #32
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

The only opponent in Ali's first reign that could truly be considered a soft touch was London.

Patterson was a former champion on a five fight win streak, including wins over Chuvalo and Machen. Mildenberger was undefeated in 17 fights, and had good results against Folley and Machen. Cooper was British and Commenwealth Champion, ranked in the top 10, and was entitled to a rematch based on dropping Ali in their first meeting. Terrel was WBA heavyweight champion, and riding a good solid win streak. Folley and Chuvalo were good solid Top 10 contenders at the very least. Even Williams was highly rated going into the fight, based on the fact that he had only lost once in the previous six years.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:44 PM   #33
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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4. Cleveland Williams-He had not been shot yet, you twat. Do you know anything. This was his prime run.

Have I missed something here or is it you who knows **** all? Williams was shot in 1964.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:44 PM   #34
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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He was never #1.
In what?
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:45 PM   #35
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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He was never #1.
He got a title shot tho which is a bigger joke
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:46 PM   #36
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
George was 34-11-2 entering that bout, and had lost to Ernie Terrell
and Eduardo Corletti, sandwiched around a win over ? in his previous
3-bouts.

There was an old Canadian poster on here who saw that fight, even he said Corletti won going away. A hugely undeserved title shot for Chuvalo.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:47 PM   #37
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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When during this period did Machen deserve a shot???
From his loss to Patterson in 64 until mid 66 he didnt win a bout then lost to Frazier at the end of 66
People accused Patterson of ducking Machen when he was champ as well.

Funny to see what Patterson did to him when they actually fought though.

Machen simply wasn't that good and didn't deserve a shot as you said.

Ali would've trashed him as well but it's a moot point as it didn't and shouldn't have happened.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:48 PM   #38
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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Have I missed something here or is it you who knows **** all? Williams was shot in 1964.
He was active until September of 1964...the end of the goddamn year before being shot, you twat. He was inactive for all of 1965, the following year.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:49 PM   #39
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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He got a title shot tho which is a bigger joke

He was #1 for a short while- around 1961 if I remember correctly. That Mongoose 'genius' obviously gets all his info from the Ring Rankings internet site.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:50 PM   #40
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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There was an old Canadian poster on here who saw that fight, even he said Corletti won going away. A hugely undeserved title shot for Chuvalo.
Yeah, but he came in as a last minute replacement for Terrell at a time when Ali couldn't get a fight in the US.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:52 PM   #41
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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The only opponent in Ali's first reign that could truly be considered a soft touch was London.

Patterson was a former champion on a five fight win streak, including wins over Chuvalo and Machen. Mildenberger was undefeated in 17 fights, and had good results against Folley and Machen. Cooper was British and Commenwealth Champion, ranked in the top 10, and was entitled to a rematch based on dropping Ali in their first meeting. Terrel was WBA heavyweight champion, and riding a good solid win streak. Folley and Chuvalo were good solid Top 10 contenders at the very least. Even Williams was highly rated going into the fight, based on the fact that he had only lost once in the previous six years.
Anything can be painted anyway you like it in boxing I guess - the fact that Williams was highly rated going into the fight indicates the difference between spin and the reality - Cooper was british champ fair enough but on the world stage that means about as much (probably less) than your average inter-state title in america - fact is Cooper also lost (twice) to the world beating Joe Erskine as well as Joe Bygraves (may as well have been Max Bygraves), Ingemar Johansson, etc etc he was a fairly average European heavyweight with a major cuts problem - perfect for Ali really
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:52 PM   #42
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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He was active until September of 1964...the end of the goddamn year before being shot, you twat. He was inactive for all of 1965, the following year.

Ha ha, I see you just edited your original post. Well done there.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:52 PM   #43
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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He got a title shot tho which is a bigger joke
And Don ****ell got a shot against your boy Rocky and he was a fatter,shitter fighter than Cooper.

And I wont even mention Dempsey's title opposition as people have dedicated entire threads about how weak it was.

Truth is if you look at any title reign with hindsight and a critical eye you can make it sound a lot worse than it was in reality,as you guys a doing with Ali just now.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:54 PM   #44
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post

Now Eddie Machen was on the down-side of his career, but he still
was a more capable fighter than George Chuvalo.
Lets make it easier,
Why didn't Cassius Clay fight Eddie Machen in 1963.
So we are changing the concept of the thread now?
You said Machen deserved a shot at Alis title yet he never won a fight for the first two years of that reign had a five month winning streak before losing to a fringe contender.

Machen may have deserved a shot at Liston or Patterson but they were playing out their duo of fights and then Ali took the title.
Machen blew his chance at Ali when Patterson then Terrel beat him.

I suspect Machen v Ali didnt happen in 63 because Eddie expected Liston to roll over Muhammad and he would then get a crack at Sonny, but as it turned out it didnt happen and Eddie was rolled by Floyd and Ernie
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:56 PM   #45
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Default Re: Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh View Post
He was #1 for a short while- around 1961 if I remember correctly. That Mongoose 'genius' obviously gets all his info from the Ring Rankings internet site.


The Ring is more reliable than your crappy memory. Though never recognized as the number one boxer in the world, Henry Cooper was offered a title fight with Patterson after beating Folley and London in 1959, he declined.
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