Archie Moore on the Ali Shuffle

[Stevie G]

Before the Kinshasa fight,Moore sent Ali a letter. In it,he stated that Muhammad had adapted 'The Watson Shuffle' in order to create the 'Ali Shuffle' Any idea as to whom this Watson was that Archie was referring to ?

[PowerPuncher]

I remember this, it was pretty much ripping into Ali wasn't it, does anyone have that letter?

[di tullio]

Since he was a musician, I'll take a wild guess that he means some kind of blues shuffle. The only blues musician named Watson I can think of from that time, though, is Johnny Guitar Watson.

[hhascup]

It was a dance that they use to do years ago.

[di tullio]

Originally Posted by hhascup

It was a dance that they use to do years ago.

Wow, I was actually on the right track.

[PowerPuncher]

I thought Moore was talking about the Ali shuffle originally being the Walcott shuffle anyway

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by di tullio

Since he was a musician, I'll take a wild guess that he means some kind of blues shuffle. The only blues musician named Watson I can think of from that time, though, is Johnny Guitar Watson.

That was one good blues singer !

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

does anyone have that letter?

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[Chaney]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

I remember this, it was pretty much ripping into Ali wasn't it, does anyone have that letter?

Part of the letter, from a battered old paperback on my fathers bookshelf:

"I see you added a few more tricks to the ones I taught you. You lifted the bolo punch from Kid Galivan, who now serves as your handyman, you converted the Watson Shuffle to the widely advertised 'Ali Shuffle.' With those few tricks in your bag, you think you've got it all."

The Greatest, 1976, p. 472

Ali said the letter and the poem from Archie were dispiriting to him. It was a form of psychological warfare from Archie who was in Big George's corner.

There is some good stuff scattered throughout 'The Greatest' about Ali's relationship with Marciano and Frazier etc. Unfortunately, it has to be said that overall, it probably does not represent an accurate portrait of Ali. It is certainly not a 'warts and all' account, rather it is more a propaganda piece by the Nation of Islam. They handpicked a sympathetic ghost writer, Richard Durham...and Herbert Muhammed had to personally approve every single page before it went to press.

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by Chaney

Part of the letter, from a battered old paperback on my fathers bookshelf:

"I see you added a few more tricks to the ones I taught you. You lifted the bolo punch from Kid Galivan, who now serves as your handyman, you converted the Watson Shuffle to the widely advertised 'Ali Shuffle.' With those few tricks in your bag, you think you've got it all."

The Greatest, 1976, p. 472

Ali said the letter and the poem from Archie were dispiriting to him. It was a form of psychological warfare from Archie who was in Big George's corner.

There is some good stuff scattered throughout 'The Greatest' about Ali's relationship with Marciano and Frazier etc. Unfortunately, it has to be said that overall, it probably does not represent an accurate portrait of Ali. It is certainly not a 'warts and all' account, rather it is more a propaganda piece by the Nation of Islam. They handpicked a sympathetic ghost writer, Richard Durham...and Herbert Muhammed had to personally approve every single page before it went to press.

Good stuff Chaney, thank you. I remember this letter in the Hauser book (am I right with that name - my first boxing/Ali book anyway). I remember Ali wrote a reply, along the lines of 'if you could beat these guys at an old age Archie, can't I', I remember it was almost , but I was only about 14 when I read it, so long ago

The Ali-Moore dynamic is an interesting 1, fighter-trainer both complimentary of each other, young boxer humiliates old vet, Moore hopes to see his young protege brutally avenge him

[Stone Roses]

Originally Posted by Chaney

Part of the letter, from a battered old paperback on my fathers bookshelf:

"I see you added a few more tricks to the ones I taught you. You lifted the bolo punch from Kid Galivan, who now serves as your handyman, you converted the Watson Shuffle to the widely advertised 'Ali Shuffle.' With those few tricks in your bag, you think you've got it all."

The Greatest, 1976, p. 472

Ali said the letter and the poem from Archie were dispiriting to him. It was a form of psychological warfare from Archie who was in Big George's corner.

There is some good stuff scattered throughout 'The Greatest' about Ali's relationship with Marciano and Frazier etc. Unfortunately, it has to be said that overall, it probably does not represent an accurate portrait of Ali. It is certainly not a 'warts and all' account, rather it is more a propaganda piece by the Nation of Islam. They handpicked a sympathetic ghost writer, Richard Durham...and Herbert Muhammed had to personally approve every single page before it went to press.

Thank you for this info, very interesting.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Good stuff Chaney, thank you. I remember this letter in the Hauser book (am I right with that name - my first boxing/Ali book anyway). I remember Ali wrote a reply, along the lines of 'if you could beat these guys at an old age Archie, can't I', I remember it was almost , but I was only about 14 when I read it, so long ago

The Ali-Moore dynamic is an interesting 1, fighter-trainer both complimentary of each other, young boxer humiliates old vet, Moore hopes to see his young protege brutally avenge him

Being the classy guy that he was,Archie admitted that Muhammad made him and a whole lot others eat their words. Moore knew what Ali was doing on the ropes,and tried to tell Sadler and Saddler,but was ignored.