Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-08-2007, 06:56 PM   #1
fg2227
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,117
vCash: 1000
Default Who is nat fleischer>

Help
fg2227 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-08-2007, 08:00 PM   #2
LeonMcS
The Mayor of Kronkton
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: GAME MATCH POINT
Posts: 6,075
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who is nat fleischer>

Was the editor of the Ring for something like 60 years? The other guys will know better than me.
LeonMcS is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 12:06 AM   #3
Lampley
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 3,760
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who is nat fleischer>

Because he was one of the few who saw virtually all of the major HWs from the early 20th Century, his opinions carry a lot of weight.

I appreciate his exprience, but having followed various opinions from him over the years, I think his perspective is overvalued. He struck me as a romantic, just like Sugar and the rest of those guys.
Lampley is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 12:39 AM   #4
hobgoblin
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 406
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who is nat fleischer>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampley
Because he was one of the few who saw virtually all of the major HWs from the early 20th Century, his opinions carry a lot of weight.

I appreciate his exprience, but having followed various opinions from him over the years, I think his perspective is overvalued. He struck me as a romantic, just like Sugar and the rest of those guys.
I completely agree with teh second paragraph. His opinion does NOT carry a lot of weight for me but I do acknowledge all the fights he has seen. Just seeing a lot of fights doesn't mean you have the insight, impartiality, etc. to make great analysis. There are fighters out there as analysts who have lots of experience but lack in others and make sketchy judgments (according the fans - for me, Foreman was one of my favorites but he is just an example). Same goes for Nat Fleischer. He definitely had an agenda that skewed his analysis. I am also not sure how pleased I am with his tampering of Clay-Liston II as he was not a time keeper, a judge, or a ref.
hobgoblin is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 03:28 AM   #5
DavidPayne
***.boxingwriter.co.uk
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 262
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who is nat fleischer>

Nat is the godfather.

Didn't like his piece on Ali in 1971, available on the Ring website. Very ivory tower.
DavidPayne is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 05:13 AM   #6
ChrisPontius
March 8th, 1971
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,632
vCash: 238
Default Re: Who is nat fleischer>

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

He's seen most if not all champions from 1905 on, but beware, his judgement becomes extremely poor when he compares fighters from the post-30's to those before.
ChrisPontius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 05:23 AM   #7
hobgoblin
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 406
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who is nat fleischer>

Quote:
but beware, his judgement becomes extremely poor when he compares fighters from the post-30's to those before.

that is precisely what i was referring too!
hobgoblin is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 03:24 PM   #8
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 20,568
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who is nat fleischer>

As others have said he tends to favour fighters from earlier periods.

It must be stresed however that he brings a unique and valuable perspective to the table. He also provides a thread of continuity.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 03:26 PM   #9
mr. magoo
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 12,562
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who is nat fleischer>

I find it shameful that Fleischer never had the opportunity to rate an all time great like Chuck Wepner.
mr. magoo is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 03:37 PM   #10
fg2227
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,117
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who is nat fleischer>

Is it true that he met john l sullivan? Thats incredible if true
fg2227 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 03:39 PM   #11
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 20,568
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who is nat fleischer>

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. magoo
I find it shameful that Fleischer never had the opportunity to rate an all time great like Chuck Wepner.
He saw the fight of the century so he nearly made it into the Wepner era.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 03:41 PM   #12
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 20,568
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who is nat fleischer>

One thing that you must give Fleischer credit for whatever you think of him is being even handed between black and white in an era when it wasnt fashionable.

It is down to him in no small part that great black fighters in the lower weight classes, from the early 20th century, like Barbados Joe Walcott were legends later on.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 03:42 PM   #13
Lampley
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 3,760
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who is nat fleischer>

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
As others have said he tends to favour fighters from earlier periods.

It must be stresed however that he brings a unique and valuable perspective to the table. He also provides a thread of continuity.
Exactly. It's a baby and bathwater situation.

You don't want to dismiss Nat completely, yet you must avoid ever using his opinion to say Fighter A is better than Fighter B. He's great for detail of the respective older eras, but qualitative assessments of fighters are best made without his opinion, IMO.
Lampley is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 03:44 PM   #14
Lampley
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 3,760
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who is nat fleischer>

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
One thing that you must give Fleischer credit for whatever you think of him is being even handed between black and white in an era when it wasnt fashionable.

It is down to him in no small part that great black fighters in the lower weight classes, from the early 20th century, like Barbados Joe Walcott were legends later on.
Excellent point. He was a huge fan of Jack Johnson, which at least provided a little counter-information to the mainstream opinions of him. If nothing else, Geoffrey Ward leans on him a bit in the excellent Unforgivable Blackness.
Lampley is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 03:53 PM   #15
TBooze
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South of London
Posts: 10,564
vCash: 75
Default Re: Who is nat fleischer>

Fleischer was also a very bitter and petty man who held a grudge well, and although he made The Ring very influential, but he also help ruin it. I guess the old saying is true:

Total power corrupts, totally.
TBooze is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013