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Old 11-07-2007, 02:10 PM   #1
mr. magoo
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Default Chuck Wepner

Born in 1939 in New Jersey, Chuck Wepner went on to boxing in the military, and in 1964 turned pro. Chuck was reported to have been the inspiration to Sylvester Stallone's Rocky series, and later sewed the actor for failing to give credit to him.

He was well known on the east coast and boxed regularly on a local circuit. Throughout his career Chuck compiled a record of 35-14-2-17, and had both wins and losses to good fighters. He was beaten by such men as George Foreman, Muhammad Ali, Sonny Liston, Joe Bugner and Scott Frank. He had wins over former champion Earnie Terrell and Randy Neuman along with a few other low profile fighters who were decent.

Wepner certainly was no top notch contender but he made it into the heavyweight picture of one of the most competitive periods in the sport. I have no doubt that a fighter of his description likely would have been a higher rated contender in either the 30's or 40', and would have given guys like Carnera, Braddock, Baer, Sharkey and Schmeling real hell.

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Old 11-07-2007, 02:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: Chuck Wepner

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
I have no doubt that a fighter of his description likely would have been a higher rated contender in either the 30's or 40', and would have given guys like Carnera, Braddock, Baer, Sharkey and Schmeling real hell.
I have verry grave doubts about this.

Terrel is his only significant win and it was daylight robery.
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: Chuck Wepner

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Originally Posted by janitor
I have verry grave doubts about this.

Terrel is his only significant win and it was daylight robery.
Surely he deserves some benefit of the doubt. Chuck Wepner was a serious contender.
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: Chuck Wepner

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
Surely he deserves some benefit of the doubt. Chuck Wepner was a serious contender.

But he wouldn´t be able to beat the guys you mentioned IMO.
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: Chuck Wepner

I've heard this his win over Ernie Terrel was a very bad verdict and Neuman is hardly anything special, other than that he is a top referee today.

In other words, Wepner's resume is shit.

He pretty much lost to anyone worth anything and to some mediocrities; a true journeyman. If he wasn't given the opportunity of a life-time by Ali, he wouldn't be more known than a Bert Cooper will be in 30 years, and at least he gave Holyfield a hard time whereas Wepner hardly troubled an ancient Liston, a green Foreman or a past it Ali.
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: Chuck Wepner

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I've heard this his win over Ernie Terrel was a very bad verdict and Neuman is hardly anything special, other than that he is a top referee today.

In other words, Wepner's resume is shit.

He pretty much lost to anyone worth anything and to some mediocrities; a true journeyman. If he wasn't given the opportunity of a life-time by Ali, he wouldn't be more known than a Bert Cooper will be in 30 years, and at least he gave Holyfield a hard time whereas Wepner hardly troubled an ancient Liston, a green Foreman or a past it Ali.
My point is that he was the worst of a tremendous era. In another era he might have been better.
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Old 11-07-2007, 02:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: Chuck Wepner

I saw many of Wepners fights, he was a nice guy and was tough but had almost zero talent,was slow and he could not break an egg, Wepner/Randy Neuman were the most boring of fights and I felt sorry for Chuck because he always looked older than he was, he had heart, but cut always, Carnera, Braddock, Baer, Sharkey and Schmeling would all beat him pretty badly, Schmeling and Baer may have hurt him real bad....so much for the 70's there were good fighters but they had there pluses and minuses like any other era, I lived it and I have to tell you a lot of fighters of today and fighters of past era's would have walked through most of them except a few
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Old 11-07-2007, 03:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: Chuck Wepner

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
Surely he deserves some benefit of the doubt. Chuck Wepner was a serious contender.
From what I understand it is one of the worse roberies of the period.
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Old 11-07-2007, 03:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: Chuck Wepner

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
My point is that he was the worst of a tremendous era. In another era he might have been better.
No he would have been just as bad. The diference is that he would not have got a title shot in most eras.
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Old 11-07-2007, 03:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: Chuck Wepner

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Originally Posted by janitor
No he would have been just as bad. The diference is that he would not have got a title shot in most eras.
I doubt it.

The 1930's were so starved of talent that its not unreasonable to think that a fighter of Journeyman status such as Wepner might have gotten a shot and even capitalized on it. Between 1971 and 1976, Wepner won 13 out of 15 fights, losing only to Randy Neuman who he later beat twice, and Muhammad ali who he took 15 rounds. Among the fighters on his winning streak, was former champ Terell. Wepner was also the New Jersey state champ for a while, and retired with an overall record of 35-14-2-17. fighters with worse credentials were given title shots during the 30's and 40's. In fact, Joe Louis gave title shots to men who were as bad or worse than Wepner was. Christ James Braddock prectically came back from the grave to make a run for the title. Had he failed against Baer, he would have likely been thought no more of than Wepner. I have always felt that I guy who ranked #12-15 during the early to mid 70's was as good or better than a fighter who was ranked 5-7 during the 30's and 40's.
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Old 11-07-2007, 03:22 PM   #11
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Default Re: Chuck Wepner

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. magoo
I doubt it.

The 1930's were so starved for talent that its not unreasonable to think that a fighter of Journeyman status such as Wepner might have gotten a shot and even capitalized on it. Between 1971 and 1976, Wepner won 13 out of 15 fights, losing only to Randy Neuman who he later beat twice, and Muhammad ali who he took 15 rounds. Among the fighters on his winning streak, was former champ Terell.
Yes but in the 30s you had to beat a number of genuine contenders to get a title shot. Guys like wepner didnt slip through the net even by getting lucky.

Going 40-0 against tomatoe cans wouldnt get you ranked. You got more credit for going 2-4-2 against contenders.

Quote:
In fact, Joe Louis gave title shots to men who were as bad or worse than Wepner was.
Who?

Quote:
Christ James Braddock prectically came back from the grave to make a run for the title. Had he failed against Baer, he would have likely been thought no more of than Wepner.
You seem to be implying some comparison between Wepner and Braddock which is more than a stretch. Braddock was world class at least when his hands were in good condition.

If Wepner went in against Baer I would genuinely fear for his health. Baer might have been inconsistent but he was never going to have any trouble putting away an oponent like that.
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Old 11-07-2007, 03:32 PM   #12
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Default Re: Chuck Wepner

[quote=janitor][quote]


Yes but in the 30s you had to beat a number of genuine contenders to get a title shot.

And who says that he wouldn't? The man obviously proved that he was good enough to be a pro fighter, and linger in with world class opposition during a period that had far more talent than the 30's. I'm confident that he may have faired well against the Schaffs and Uzcudans of the day.



Quote:
Who?

How about men like Jack Roper and Johny Davis? Davis didn't beat shit to get a shot at Louis, and Roper may have tangoed with a few good fighters but lost way too many to justify giving him a title shot.

Quote:

You seem to be implying some comparison between Wepner and Braddock which is more than a stretch. Braddock was world class at least when his hands were in good condition.
Braddock was gifted a shot against a top contender when most of the boxing world felt he was through. He had lost some 24 fights and had a pile of average wins before he made his mark. What's to say that Wepner couldn't do the same if given the opportunity during those days.

Quote:
If Wepner went in against Baer I would genuinely fear for his health. Baer might have been inconsistent but he was never going to have any trouble putting away an oponent like that.

Baer was naturally viewed as a threat to any opponent's health who faced him back then. Yes I think a Bear-Wepner fight would be a mismatch, but thats still not to say that Chuck couldn't have been rated back then.
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Old 11-07-2007, 03:44 PM   #13
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Default Re: Chuck Wepner

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. magoo
Yes but in the 30s you had to beat a number of genuine contenders to get a title shot.

And who says that he wouldn't? The man obviously proved that he was good enough to be a pro fighter, and linger in with world class opposition during a period that had far more talent than the 30's. I'm confident that he may have faired well against the Schaffs and Uzcudans of the day.
I can asure you that both Schaff and Uzcdun would have made quick work of him.

Say he pulls off an upset against one of them like he did against Terell. He just looses to the next one he fights and is no further on.

Quote:
How about men like Jack Roper and Johny Davis? Davis didn't beat shit to get a shot at Louis, and Roper may have tangoed with a few good fighters but lost way too many to justify giving him a title shot.
Davis did not get a title shot it was an exhibition. As for Roper he beat far more top fighters than Wepner but still never broke the annual rankings.

Quote:
Braddock was gifted a shot against a top contender when most of the boxing world felt he was through. He had lost some 24 fights and had a pile of average wins before he made his mark. What's to say that Wepner couldn't do the same if given the opportunity during those days.
Braddock had to put together two back to back wins against ranked contenders to get a title shot and even then he was lucky to get it being only about third in line.

It is quite a tall order to assume that Wepner would be able to do this.
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Old 11-07-2007, 03:50 PM   #14
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Default Re: Chuck Wepner

Joe Frazier was tailor made for Wepner's rabbit punch, and that's why Smoke ducked him, choosing instead to defend his title against bums like Ali and Foreman. Andre the Giant was so scared of Chuck that he insisted Wepner pull his punches and throw their match on the Ali/Inoki undercard.

Chuck nearly drowned Liston in his blood, after Braverman bladed Wepner in his corner between rounds. (Braverman, the Panama Lewis of his day, was always plotting with Ground Chuck to use his own blood to blind his opponents.) Sonny was so afraid of facing Wepner in a rematch that he chose to commit suicide rather than have to face Chuck again.
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Old 11-07-2007, 03:57 PM   #15
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Default Re: Chuck Wepner

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Originally Posted by Duodenum

Chuck nearly drowned Liston in his blood, after Braverman bladed Wepner in his corner between rounds. (Braverman, the Panama Lewis of his day, was always plotting with Ground Chuck to use his own blood to blind his opponents.) Sonny was so afraid of facing Wepner in a rematch that he chose to commit suicide rather than have to face Chuck again.
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