Where do you rank Jack Dempsey??

Bad_Intentions · 06-17-2007, 11:04 PM

vote. and discuss.

jonesjrp4p1 · 06-17-2007, 11:27 PM

p4p all time or hw.....im guessing you mean p4p

jonesjrp4p1 · 06-17-2007, 11:46 PM

was this a public poll because if it was how do you find out the voters......i want to know who voted for him out of the top 100

Ramon Rojo · 06-17-2007, 11:56 PM

Based on achievement i rank him in top 10.

Based on who he can beat head to head he´s not even in my top 50.

Which one are we voting here?

Bad_Intentions · 06-18-2007, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesjrp4p1

was this a public poll because if it was how do you find out the voters......i want to know who voted for him out of the top 100

homicidal hank.

fightking12 · 06-18-2007, 01:06 AM

I rank him in 18 of all time

Zakman · 06-18-2007, 01:19 AM

I rank him # 3. IMO, the GOAT debate should really be a three way affair. Dempsey is horribly underrated today. Until the guys who actually saw him fight started dying off, he was generally thought to have been greater than Louis. I'm not saying he was, but he was closer than people seem to think today.

Dempsey didn't just beat his opponents, he beat them up. People can downgrade his opposition all they want, but Dempsey didn't just beat the guys he fought, he destroyed them. That sort of dominance has to count for something - and like I said, it used to count for a great deal until the guys that followed his career passed away.

06-18-2007, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Based on achievement i rank him in top 10.

Based on who he can beat head to head he´s not even in my top 50.

I actually hold the reverse of this view of Dempsey.

I think he rates higher on who he can beat. Taken at his absolute peak I think he has a chance of beating any fighter that ever lived.

On his actual achievements ie. factor in the quality of opposition he actually beat and his amount of meaningful wins in his prime, I'd rate him lower, but still in the top 15, and probably top 10.

janitor · 06-18-2007, 05:57 AM

There are a few heavyweights that I would not give any human being who had ever boxed much better than even odds against. Dempsey is one of them. As an ofensive fighter and infighter he is without peer at heavyweight.

janitor · 06-18-2007, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homicidal Hank

Willard was a big farmboy. Hardly a fair fight (Johnson obviously took a dive).

I am as big a suporter of Jack Johnson's resume as you will find on this site but I can asure you that he did not take a dive against Willard.

Don't doubt for a second that the knockout was legitimate.

PowerPuncher · 06-18-2007, 06:16 AM

Around 11 or 12 - my HW list is on my other PC

Reasons for him not making the top10

1. Never beat a top30 ranked HW of all time

2. Weak overall comp

3. Never faced the best HWs of his era Wills, Langford, Godfrey, McVea, Jeanette, Jack Johnson, Harry Greb

4. Wills fought in the same ts Dempsey and has a better resume than Dempsey fighting much better competition.

5. Very innactive as champion

6. Losses to Tunney and in his days as a contender hurt him.

The following have far better wins in defining fights: Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Wills, Langford, Tyson, Holmes, Louis, Schmelling, Marciano, Walcott, Charles, Lennox Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Liston, Tunney, Jack Johnson.

janitor · 06-18-2007, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

The following have far better wins in defining fights: Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Wills, Langford, Tyson, Holmes, Louis, Schmelling, Marciano, Walcott, Charles, Lennox Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Liston, Tunney, Jack Johnson.

Or is a little of what Dempsey acomplished getting lost in translation?

McGrain · 06-18-2007, 07:50 AM

Johnson is one of the fighters I know a little bit about; I'm quite happy he didn't take a dive.

I have Dempsey at #12. This is based primarily on how I see him going head to head and what i've seen him do on film. He'd be a handful for anyone, though I see the top guys beating him 2/3.

If Dempsey had Greb, Wills and maybe McVey (?) on his resume then i'd have to re-think things. Those would be some scalps.

I know i'm in the minority, but I also think he should have entertained Johnson.

McGrain · 06-18-2007, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

5. Very innactive as champion.

This winds me up too. Wasn't he the most inactive champ?

At least Willard assembled a mad travelling circus type affair. Dempsey just fannied about.

Minotauro · 06-18-2007, 08:01 AM

I have him at around 9-10 on my greatest heavyweights.

View Poll Results: where do you rank dempsey?
top 5	33	31.13%
top 10	39	36.79%
top 15	20	18.87%
top 20	5	4.72%
top 25	4	3.77%
not even in my top 100	5	4.72%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

06-17-2007, 11:04 PM	#1
Bad_Intentions Champion East Side Guru Join Date: May 2007 Location: Miami FL, USA Posts: 9,730 vCash: 153	Where do you rank Jack Dempsey?? vote. and discuss.
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06-17-2007, 11:27 PM	#2
jonesjrp4p1 16 yr old prodigy ESB Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: oswego Posts: 1,026 vCash: 1557	Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey?? p4p all time or hw.....im guessing you mean p4p
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06-17-2007, 11:46 PM	#3
jonesjrp4p1 16 yr old prodigy ESB Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: oswego Posts: 1,026 vCash: 1557	Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey?? was this a public poll because if it was how do you find out the voters......i want to know who voted for him out of the top 100
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06-17-2007, 11:56 PM	#4
Ramon Rojo Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 13,800 vCash: 75	Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey?? Based on achievement i rank him in top 10. Based on who he can beat head to head he´s not even in my top 50. Which one are we voting here?
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06-18-2007, 01:06 AM	#6
fightking12 Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: SF Posts: 197 vCash: 1000	Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey?? I rank him in 18 of all time
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06-18-2007, 01:19 AM	#7
Zakman ESB's Chinchecker East Side VIP Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Ivory Tower Posts: 40,639 vCash: 500	Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey?? I rank him # 3. IMO, the GOAT debate should really be a three way affair. Dempsey is horribly underrated today. Until the guys who actually saw him fight started dying off, he was generally thought to have been greater than Louis. I'm not saying he was, but he was closer than people seem to think today. Dempsey didn't just beat his opponents, he beat them up. People can downgrade his opposition all they want, but Dempsey didn't just beat the guys he fought, he destroyed them. That sort of dominance has to count for something - and like I said, it used to count for a great deal until the guys that followed his career passed away.
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06-18-2007, 05:57 AM	#9
janitor P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 19,024 vCash: 1000	Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey?? There are a few heavyweights that I would not give any human being who had ever boxed much better than even odds against. Dempsey is one of them. As an ofensive fighter and infighter he is without peer at heavyweight.
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06-18-2007, 06:16 AM	#11
PowerPuncher ESB Junkie East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 30,726 vCash: 1000	Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey?? Around 11 or 12 - my HW list is on my other PC Reasons for him not making the top10 1. Never beat a top30 ranked HW of all time 2. Weak overall comp 3. Never faced the best HWs of his era Wills, Langford, Godfrey, McVea, Jeanette, Jack Johnson, Harry Greb 4. Wills fought in the same ts Dempsey and has a better resume than Dempsey fighting much better competition. 5. Very innactive as champion 6. Losses to Tunney and in his days as a contender hurt him. The following have far better wins in defining fights: Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Wills, Langford, Tyson, Holmes, Louis, Schmelling, Marciano, Walcott, Charles, Lennox Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Liston, Tunney, Jack Johnson. Last edited by PowerPuncher; 06-18-2007 at 06:20 AM.
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06-18-2007, 07:50 AM	#13
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 63,251 vCash: 1000	Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey?? Johnson is one of the fighters I know a little bit about; I'm quite happy he didn't take a dive. I have Dempsey at #12. This is based primarily on how I see him going head to head and what i've seen him do on film. He'd be a handful for anyone, though I see the top guys beating him 2/3. If Dempsey had Greb, Wills and maybe McVey (?) on his resume then i'd have to re-think things. Those would be some scalps. I know i'm in the minority, but I also think he should have entertained Johnson.
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06-18-2007, 08:01 AM	#15
Minotauro Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: May 2007 Location: London Posts: 2,885 vCash: 1000	Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey?? I have him at around 9-10 on my greatest heavyweights.
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