George Foreman Vs Rocky Maricano

[frankwornank]

For those that constantly bring up the size difference, take note of this. I looked up the (5) heaviest guys Marciano ever fought. The average weight advantage over Marciano was 39.2 pounds. He knocked every one of them out. Foreman was superior to those (5) but it takes more than size to beat a Marciano. When you take into account Marciano's size, factor in determination, will, conditioning and confidence and you wind up with a bigger heavyweight than his 5' 10 1/2" 185 lb. frame might suggest. I am not saying Marciano would have beaten Foreman and obviously, we will never know. However, the idea that Foreman would walk through a Marciano is a big stretch. When you are as strong as Marciano and punch as hard as he did, nobody walks through you.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by Dempsey1238

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This is a good reason imo.

It is a verry good reason, but perhaps the time has come where we need to look at the inticacies of swarmer on slugger matches more, and not just say "see Frazier Foreman".

[choklab]

Originally Posted by frankwornank

For those that constantly bring up the size difference, take note of this. I looked up the (5) heaviest guys Marciano ever fought. The average weight advantage over Marciano was 39.2 pounds. He knocked every one of them out. Foreman was superior to those (5) but it takes more than size to beat a Marciano. When you take into account Marciano's size, factor in determination, will, conditioning and confidence and you wind up with a bigger heavyweight than his 5' 10 1/2" 185 lb. frame might suggest. I am not saying Marciano would have beaten Foreman and obviously, we will never know. However, the idea that Foreman would walk through a Marciano is a big stretch. When you are as strong as Marciano and punch as hard as he did, nobody walks through you.

[Seamus]

Marciano takes him out in 6 or 7, with his grit, determination, high motor, work ethic, intangibles and any other bullshit descriptors routinely assigned to him...

[Unforgiven]

Foreman's only really advantage is his strength, and that's a significant advantage. Foreman was very strong and pushed opponents around, often pushing them to the ground.
Foreman's size, height and reach, is hardly a factor, because he didn't really use his reach effectively. He got close to opponents and just swung at them, he wasn't hard to hit. His chin was out there being hit by everyone he fought.
Guys with names like Faustino Pires, Ted Gullick, Gregorio Peralta, Angel Paez got their punches in on George. He just drowned them out with his swinging and pushing. I think Rocky Marciano would hit him and hurt him. I mean, this would be a desperate brawl on both sides, realistically.

The one time I saw young Foreman fight more intelligently with his size and jab was against Chuvalo.

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by frankwornank

For those that constantly bring up the size difference, take note of this. I looked up the (5) heaviest guys Marciano ever fought. The average weight advantage over Marciano was 39.2 pounds. He knocked every one of them out. Foreman was superior to those (5) but it takes more than size to beat a Marciano. When you take into account Marciano's size, factor in determination, will, conditioning and confidence and you wind up with a bigger heavyweight than his 5' 10 1/2" 185 lb. frame might suggest. I am not saying Marciano would have beaten Foreman and obviously, we will never know. However, the idea that Foreman would walk through a Marciano is a big stretch. When you are as strong as Marciano and punch as hard as he did, nobody walks through you.

[he grant]

Originally Posted by frankwornank

For those that constantly bring up the size difference, take note of this. I looked up the (5) heaviest guys Marciano ever fought. The average weight advantage over Marciano was 39.2 pounds. He knocked every one of them out. Foreman was superior to those (5) but it takes more than size to beat a Marciano. When you take into account Marciano's size, factor in determination, will, conditioning and confidence and you wind up with a bigger heavyweight than his 5' 10 1/2" 185 lb. frame might suggest. I am not saying Marciano would have beaten Foreman and obviously, we will never know. However, the idea that Foreman would walk through a Marciano is a big stretch. When you are as strong as Marciano and punch as hard as he did, nobody walks through you.

Here's what we do know .. we saw how Foreman matches up against exceptionally tough, strong chinned, iron willed, extremely well conditioned , short sluggers with all time great hearts when he fought Joe Frazier. We never saw Marciano fight any 6'3", 220 pounds of brute strength ,world class fighter with his own iron chin, a strong solid jab off a 13" reach advantage and sledge hammer power. It's a terrible match up for Rocky and I doubt any of you would put a nickel of your own money on him in this match up if it could ever take place.

[choklab]

Originally Posted by he grant

Here's what we do know .. we saw how Foreman matches up against exceptionally tough, strong chinned, iron willed, extremely well conditioned , short sluggers with all time great hearts when he fought Joe Frazier. .

frazier was still exceptionly iron willed but his punch resistance was shot after TFOTC. foreman was joe's first real step up since that fight, the hope was joe was recovered and ready but he was not. even joe bugner later wobbled him.

Originally Posted by he grant

We never saw Marciano fight any 6'3", 220 pounds of brute strength ,world class fighter with his own iron chin, a strong solid jab off a 13" reach advantage and sledge hammer power..

neither did gene tunney, jack dempsey, joe louis, soney liston,harry greb face a guy with the exact atributes of a young foreman...peak george foreman brought a lot to the table. one thing he never brought to the table for his best wins was stamina, seasoning, experience and ring savy. what he lacked was the glue to bond what he had to overcome a guy so awkward, with more durability, heart, punch, seasoning and relentless presure than he had ever been exposed to.

Originally Posted by he grant

It's a terrible match up for Rocky and I doubt any of you would put a nickel of your own money on him in this match up if it could ever take place.

its a terible match up for green george too.

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by he grant

Here's what we do know .. we saw how Foreman matches up against exceptionally tough, strong chinned, iron willed, extremely well conditioned , short sluggers with all time great hearts when he fought Joe Frazier. We never saw Marciano fight any 6'3", 220 pounds of brute strength ,world class fighter with his own iron chin, a strong solid jab off a 13" reach advantage and sledge hammer power. It's a terrible match up for Rocky and I doubt any of you would put a nickel of your own money on him in this match up if it could ever take place.

Marciano did beat the 6"4 Carmine Vingo and most of Marciano's opponents outweighed him.

Frazier and Marciano are 2 different fighters, Frazier was dropped or stunned by Mike Bruce,Bonavena,Ali,Jumbo Cummings,Manuel Ramos,Daniels,Stander,Foreman in 38 fights, Marciano was never hurt in 49 fights even when dropped.

Marciano was a 2 fisted puncher, Frazier had a left hook...from the Lyle fight it shows Foreman can also be hurt early and the fight against Lyle could have been stopped in Lyle's favor a few times. If you look at Lyle's record you can see he was not in the class of Marciano as a puncher

Frazier was not in the best condition after the Ali 1 fight and he still got off the floor 6 times vs Foreman till the RSC...

Foreman would not be able to walk through Marciano without feeling some of Marciano's punches and Marciano was harder to hit without getting hit and Foreman's strategy may backfire if he goes in winging vs Rocky and Foreman's famous lack of stamina may certainly leave him quicker in a battle vs a 2-fisted puncher.

I am not saying that this fight is a lock for Marciano but it is a tough fight for Foreman IMO and a much different fight than Frazier

[Boucher]

Originally Posted by janitor

Foreman might be the worst possible matchup for Marciano from any era.

I have always thought that with Marciano, the more rounds you needed to take him out, the more the odds would shift against you. Foremans MO might just be the best way of dealing with him.

I agree , Marciano would need to take it into the late rounds ,and hope that Foreman winds down ,but I believe George would batter him defenceless long before that could take place, huge size advantage ,plus heavy duty , two fisted power , coupled with a ram of a jab. Marciano might be more durable than Frazier ,but he was also a lot slower, and consequently he would be easier to catch imo,add tender skin to the equation and the odds are stacked heavily against Rocky .

[he grant]

Originally Posted by choklab

frazier was still exceptionly iron willed but his punch resistance was shot after TFOTC. foreman was joe's first real step up since that fight, the hope was joe was recovered and ready but he was not. even joe bugner later wobbled him.




neither did gene tunney, jack dempsey, joe louis, soney liston,harry greb face a guy with the exact atributes of a young foreman...peak george foreman brought a lot to the table. one thing he never brought to the table for his best wins was stamina, seasoning, experience and ring savy. what he lacked was the glue to bond what he had to overcome a guy so awkward, with more durability, heart, punch, seasoning and relentless presure than he had ever been exposed to.



its a terible match up for green george too.

Frazier's chin was not shot after Superfight 1. Look at the dozens of flush rifght hands he took in Mania ..if anything Frazier's poor vision was poorer and he got hit bling more .. the reason he got bounced around in Jamaica was all avout Froeman's freakish strength and power and how Foreman excelled stylewise against short crouching fighters. No one was taking those punches and surviving.

I agree that the first incarnation of Foreman was flawed and he would have been beaten by a ahndful of great fighters but it is all based on style and Rocky had the least for him to fear style wise ...

[combatesdeboxeo]

Originally Posted by janitor

Foreman might be the worst possible matchup for Marciano from any era.

.

yes janitor, foreman would be the worst, i love rocky, but .... sorry... brutal tko in 2 rounds.

[combatesdeboxeo]

foreman was taller.bigger,heavier,stronger,harder puncher, he had longer reach, he could take a great shot, he had heart, and his style was horrible for rocky.
simply rocky would have no chance.

[choklab]

Originally Posted by he grant

Frazier's chin was not shot after Superfight 1. Look at the dozens of flush rifght hands he took in Mania ....

frazier took a lot of right hands off ali in manilia but ali's power made more effect on frazier in that fight beacuse joes punch resistance had declined since their first fight.

Originally Posted by he grant

I agree that the first incarnation of Foreman was flawed and he would have been beaten by a ahndful of great fighters but it is all based on style and Rocky had the least for him to fear style wise ...

perhaps, but that would NOT make it an easy fight for george. the fact that george would not fear marciano would not help him. based on style its bad for george BECAUSE he would not fear marciano. This guy is tougher than anyone george faced at his best. an awkward handfull coming in low throwing heavy bombs from all angles, hard to hit clean, hard to discourage. I dont see green george having a comfortable time of it. george simply would not make the same effect on rocky as he did frazier, he would just get tired quicker, hurt more and struggle. george would run out of ideas pretty quick. Its not an easy fight for marciano either, but it would be after 4 rounds.

[RockysSplitNose]

Originally Posted by combatesdeboxeo

yes janitor, foreman would be the worst, i love rocky, but .... sorry... brutal tko in 2 rounds.

This is completely ridiculous - no-one, read that - N O - O N E is KO'ing Rocky in 2 rounds - no one. If you want my opinion on this whole Frazier Marciano thing - Frazier couldn't hold a candle to Rocky Marciano and is in no way a similar fighter - the only vague similarity is the heights.

Frazier was like a sitting duck - which is something Rocky never was Frazier fought dumb fights a lot and was easy to time rythmically because he always fought the same way and always used the same bobbing rythm - you could always see him building up for his big shots - bobbing your head up and down isn't going to do anything if you put your head right in front of a beast like Foreman - it's asking for him to hit it - especially if all you do when you stupidly run into a couple of shots is pump your gloves together in a macho way and carry on sticking your face out in front waiting for it to be hit again - Marciano would never have been that stupid - Marciano would've been like he was in most other fights of his - he would've been very wary and watchful of the other guy setting up he would've been ducking very low and very wide and stepping out of range and stepping round to the side - Foreman would have found it very awkward to get his punches off properly I think and he would've been really shocked and concerned when Rock started digging in his own nasty shots - Frazier fought a stupid fight - half the time Foreman was pushing him back off - couldn't Frazier realise george was trying to put him at just the right distance?? Well George didn't have long to wait - Rocky would never EVER be that predictable and stupid - as a result George would never EVER be able to duplicate that type of a blast out because Rocky would never EVER put himself in a position to be bludgeoned like that