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Old 12-24-2010, 02:53 PM   #31
Seamus
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Default Re: ESB Top 20 HW (Official Final Vote)

I will never understand ranking Dempsey above Tyson. They had similar career trajectories but Tyson's white-hot prime was more destructive, a bit longer and he beat a far better lot. The Dempsey shadow stretches long, but I tend to believe it largely is the product of myth.
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Old 12-24-2010, 03:17 PM   #32
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Default Re: ESB Top 20 HW (Official Final Vote)

My first five are easy:

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. Jim Jefferies
5. Rocky Marciano

Numbers 15-20 I am prety clear on:

15. Wladimir Klitschko
16. Joe Walcott
17. Max Schmeling
18. Ezzard Charles
19. Gene Tunney
20. Floyd Patterson


I will need to give som more thought to the rest.
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:22 PM   #33
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Default Re: ESB Top 20 HW (Official Final Vote)

1 Louis
2 Ali
3 Marciano
4 Lewis
5 Holmes
6 Johnson
7 Jeff
8 Dempsey
9 Sullivan
10 Holyfiled
11 Tyson
12 Charles
13 Walcott
14 Liston
15 Patterson
16 Schemling
17 Bowe
18 Gene Tunney
19 Max Baer
20 Jess Willard
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:32 PM   #34
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Default Re: ESB Top 20 HW (Official Final Vote)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
I will never understand ranking Dempsey above Tyson. They had similar career trajectories but Tyson's white-hot prime was more destructive, a bit longer and he beat a far better lot. The Dempsey shadow stretches long, but I tend to believe it largely is the product of myth.
I rank Dempsey above Tyson, and disagree with the points you make.
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:42 PM   #35
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Default Re: ESB Top 20 HW (Official Final Vote)

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Larry Holmes
6. George Foreman
7. Joe Frazier
8. Rocky Marciano
9. Mike Tyson
10. Lennox Lewis
11. Evander Holyfield
12. Wladimir Klitschko
13. Jim Jeffries
14. Sonny Liston
15. Gene Tunney
16. Ezzard Charles
17. Jersey Joe Walcott
18. Sam Langford
19. Max Schmeling
20. Floyd Patterson
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:02 PM   #36
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Default Re: ESB Top 20 HW (Official Final Vote)

I never understood why some people keep the Rock out of the top ten myself.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:19 PM   #37
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Default Re: ESB Top 20 HW (Official Final Vote)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey1238 View Post
I never understood why some people keep the Rock out of the top ten myself.
He's the best after Ali and Louis imo.
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Old 12-24-2010, 10:52 PM   #38
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Default Re: ESB Top 20 HW (Official Final Vote)

Can't believe Bowe, Wills and Jeannette, did'nt make it
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Old 12-25-2010, 05:50 AM   #39
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Default Re: ESB Top 20 HW (Official Final Vote)

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Lewis
4. Holmes
5. Marciano
6. Foreman
7. Frazier
8. Tyson
9. Liston
10. Holyfield
11. Johnson
12. Sam Langford
13. Dempsey
14. Tunney
15. Charles
16. Jeffries
17. Klitschko
18. Patterson
19. Walcott
20. Schmeling

Past ten is messy
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Old 12-25-2010, 06:04 AM   #40
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Default Re: ESB Top 20 HW (Official Final Vote)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarsean View Post
Can't believe Bowe, Wills and Jeannette, did'nt make it
Canīt believe how Bowe or Jeanette could make someones Top20.
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Old 12-25-2010, 06:39 AM   #41
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Default Re: ESB Top 20 HW (Official Final Vote)

First off - Reznick, love your videos.

Okay then...I usually find rankings real tough to do, but here's my own personal list for the vote:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Rocky Marciano
5. Lennox Lewis
6. George Foreman
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Joe Frazier
9. Jack Johnson
10. Jack Dempsey
11. Jim Jefferies
12. Mike Tyson
13. Sam Langford
14. Sonny Liston
15. Wladimir Klitschko
16. Ezzard Charles
17. Joe Walcott
18. Floyd Patterson
19. Gene Tunney
20. Max Schmeling
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Old 12-25-2010, 10:51 AM   #42
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Default Re: ESB Top 20 HW (Official Final Vote)

I went over every Boxing Historian and Boxing expert’s list of their top Heavyweight Champions. Most of them had Ali and Louis as #1 and #2.

I Have 46 boxing Historian or Expert rating and here's what they came out with:

1. Ali 26 Louis 13 Dempsey 2 Marciano 2 (Duva & Certo) Tyson, Jeffries & Johnson 1
2. Ali 9 Louis 22
3. Ali 5 Louis 3
4. Ali 3 Louis 4
5. Ali 2 Louis 0
6. Ali 0 Louis 4
7. Ali 0 Louis 0
8. Ali 0 Louis 0
9. Ali 1 Louis 0
10. Ali 0 Louis 0

OTHER OPINIONS ON GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT: Some of these are counted in my totals BUT some aren't because I don't have their full Top 10.
INTERNATIONAL BOXING RESEARCH ORGANIZATION (IBRO): Joe Louis (USA)
JIM AMATO (Amato Boxing): Muhammad Ali (USA)
TRACY CALLIS (Historian, Great Fighters of the Past): Jim Jeffries (USA)
DAN CUOCO (Historian, Director of IBRO): Joe Louis (USA)
BARRY DESKINS (Historian, Cyber Boxing Zone and BoxRec): Muhammad Ali (USA)
STEPHEN GORDON (Cyber Boxing Zone): Muhammad Ali (USA)
MIKE HUNNICUT (Historian, Writer, Film Collector): Jack Dempsey (USA)
ERIC JORGENSEN (Historian): Muhammad Ali (USA)
RON LIPTON (Historian, Former Fighter and Referee): Joe Louis (USA)
CURTIS NARIMATSU (Writer and Historian): Muhammad Ali (USA)
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:02 AM   #43
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Default Re: ESB Top 20 HW (Official Final Vote)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hhascup View Post
I went over every Boxing Historian and Boxing expert’s list of their top Heavyweight Champions. Most of them had Ali and Louis as #1 and #2.

I Have 46 boxing Historian or Expert rating and here's what they came out with:

1. Ali 26 Louis 13 Dempsey 2 Marciano 2 (Duva & Certo) Tyson, Jeffries & Johnson 1
2. Ali 9 Louis 22
3. Ali 5 Louis 3
4. Ali 3 Louis 4
5. Ali 2 Louis 0
6. Ali 0 Louis 4
7. Ali 0 Louis 0
8. Ali 0 Louis 0
9. Ali 1 Louis 0
10. Ali 0 Louis 0

OTHER OPINIONS ON GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT: Some of these are counted in my totals BUT some aren't because I don't have their full Top 10.
INTERNATIONAL BOXING RESEARCH ORGANIZATION (IBRO): Joe Louis (USA)
JIM AMATO (Amato Boxing): Muhammad Ali (USA)
TRACY CALLIS (Historian, Great Fighters of the Past): Jim Jeffries (USA)
DAN CUOCO (Historian, Director of IBRO): Joe Louis (USA)
BARRY DESKINS (Historian, Cyber Boxing Zone and BoxRec): Muhammad Ali (USA)
STEPHEN GORDON (Cyber Boxing Zone): Muhammad Ali (USA)
MIKE HUNNICUT (Historian, Writer, Film Collector): Jack Dempsey (USA)
ERIC JORGENSEN (Historian): Muhammad Ali (USA)
RON LIPTON (Historian, Former Fighter and Referee): Joe Louis (USA)
CURTIS NARIMATSU (Writer and Historian): Muhammad Ali (USA)

Thank you very much for this information hhascup! Did you compile these statistics on your own? Is there any further data on the stat?


Also hhascup, if you happen to see this again, I know it might be asking a lot, but how would you feel about participating in this thread? I think it would be an honor for us to have an ESB list with a contribution from someone like you. Many boxing fans young and old will watch this video, and will formulate their opinions about certain fighters because of it. So please do your sport a favor, and shareyour top 20 list!!
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:16 AM   #44
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Default Re: ESB Top 20 HW (Official Final Vote)

Here's a list I made several years ago. I don't rate any boxer until he has retired.

I go by head to head, listening to other historians, over-all records, who they fought and when they fought them, etc.

When I was a kid, most experts had Dempsey far and away as #1, years later they had Louis, now they have Ali.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. George Foreman
5. Jack Dempsey
6. Jack Johnson
7. Sonny Liston
8. Joe Frazier
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Rocky Marciano
11. Gene Tunney
12. Evander Holyfield
13. Mike Tyson
14. James J. Jeffries
15. Ezzard Charles
16. Riddick Bowe
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:22 AM   #45
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Default Re: ESB Top 20 HW (Official Final Vote)

Quote:
Originally Posted by reznick View Post
Thank you very much for this information hhascup! Did you compile these statistics on your own? Is there any further data on the stat?


Also hhascup, if you happen to see this again, I know it might be asking a lot, but how would you feel about participating in this thread? I think it would be an honor for us to have an ESB list with a contribution from someone like you. Many boxing fans young and old will watch this video, and will formulate their opinions about certain fighters because of it. So please do your sport a favor, and shareyour top 20 list!!
First of all, I don't know any 2 historians or experts that would agree with a top 10 list. I know almost all the top ones and I respect each and everyone of them along with their opinons.

Also, thanks for the kind words.

Last edited by hhascup; 12-25-2010 at 11:44 AM.
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