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Old 07-11-2009, 03:40 PM   #1
butler08
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Default If conn had defeated louis

If billy conn had beaten louis in 41 but their careers thereafter followed the exact same course as they did in reality eg louis fighting 14 times after there fight excluding there rematch his retirement and come back both walcott fights the losses to charles and marciano. And with conn fighting only more times 5 after louis before retiring.

My question is how would history look upon these to fighters if this was the course that both there careers followed?
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: If conn had defeated louis

Conn would be top 15 pound for pound I reckon...maybe higher. He's underated as it is I reckon.

Louis would be just another top 10/12 HW.
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:02 PM   #3
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Default Re: If conn had defeated louis

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Originally Posted by butler08 View Post
If billy conn had beaten louis in 41 but their careers thereafter followed the exact same course as they did in reality eg louis fighting 14 times after there fight excluding there rematch his retirement and come back both walcott fights the losses to charles and marciano. And with conn fighting only more times 5 after louis before retiring.

My question is how would history look upon these to fighters if this was the course that both there careers followed?
I think conn is good but very over rated
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: If conn had defeated louis

Conn would be given a top 20 heavyweight ranking by default and would enjoy a status similar to Gene Tunney.

Louis's reputation would take a dent but he would still be seen as a top 3 all time heavyweight. He would slip beneath Ali even in the eyes of apologists such as myself.
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: If conn had defeated louis

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Conn would be top 15 pound for pound I reckon...maybe higher. He's underated as it is I reckon.

Louis would be just another top 10/12 HW.
i can see that and in hindsight he probably should but Louis would be ranked less highly so would Conns ranking be diminished aswell

btw i love the avater it really captures Gattis heart and determination to win, i remember watching him fight Alphonso Gomez in his last fight and he was shot but i hoped he could win i really did. He was getting beat up but in the later rounds he started showboating and putting a show on to his fans and going to war with Gomez. A true warrior and entertainer, life wont be so colourful the Gatti rollercoaster has come to an end

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Originally Posted by cotto20 View Post
I think conn is good but very over rated
explain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Conn would be given a top 20 heavyweight ranking by default and would enjoy a status similar to Gene Tunney.

Louis's reputation would take a dent but he would still be seen as a top 3 all time heavyweight. He would slip beneath Ali even in the eyes of apologists such as myself.
I can see that also kinda what i said to McGrain
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: If conn had defeated louis

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Conn would be top 15 pound for pound I reckon...maybe higher. He's underated as it is I reckon.

Louis would be just another top 10/12 HW.
What sort of level would you rank conn at now at light heavy and P4P?

If conn had got the win and the rest of louis career went as it did conn legacy would have sky rocketed, you'd been talking about a win up there with duran over leonard as one of the greatest in history, also his resume already is good, lesnevich, zale, pastor, yarosz etc. Add louis and top 15 sounds justifiable
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: If conn had defeated louis

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I can see that also kinda what i said to McGrain
I think that the fights that a great champion's critics hold against him can say as much as his wins.

They can be embarasing losses.

They can be gift decisions.

If they are winning efforts where the champion performed bellow par but still won then that is strongly in his favour.

Mike Tyson didnt come back to win late against James Douglas he was knocked out.

George Foreman didnt pull it out of the bag against Jimmy Young.

I could go on.

Louis pulled it out of the bag when Douglas/Young/whoever came to collect his head.
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: If conn had defeated louis

If Joe Louis was booze he'd be Macallan whisky aged 30 years in a single cask.
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:51 PM   #9
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Default Re: If conn had defeated louis

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
I think that the fights that a great champion's critics hold against him can say as much as his wins.

They can be embarasing losses.

They can be gift decisions.

If they are winning efforts where the champion performed bellow par but still won then that is strongly in his favour.

Mike Tyson didnt come back to win late against James Douglas he was knocked out.

George Foreman didnt pull it out of the bag against Jimmy Young.

I could go on.

Louis pulled it out of the bag when Douglas/Young/whoever came to collect his head.
Yes but Louis if he lost this fight wouldnt have had that pulling it out the bag fame of this fight and that could damage his standing and in turn Conn would be ranked lower.

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If Joe Louis was booze he'd be Macallan whisky aged 30 years in a single cask.
He'd be famous grouse - the best stuff around.
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:54 PM   #10
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Default Re: If conn had defeated louis

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He'd be famous grouse - the best stuff around.


Your boxing knowledge is impressive but your taste in whisky is that of...well, a kid.
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: If conn had defeated louis

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post


Your boxing knowledge is impressive but your taste in whisky is that of...well, a kid.
cheers for the compliment

hey im scottish, whiskeys the only alchol i drink. I admit i havent tried the finer whiskeys though, i have a good one but my Dad giving it me when im 18.
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Old 07-11-2009, 07:24 PM   #12
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Default Re: If conn had defeated louis

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Originally Posted by butler08 View Post
If billy conn had beaten louis in 41 but their careers thereafter followed the exact same course as they did in reality eg louis fighting 14 times after there fight excluding there rematch his retirement and come back both walcott fights the losses to charles and marciano. And with conn fighting only more times 5 after louis before retiring.

My question is how would history look upon these to fighters if this was the course that both there careers followed?
It would be the second super middleweight winning the heavy weight title.
Major acheivment, Louis would take a terminal career hit imo.
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:20 AM   #13
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Default Re: If conn had defeated louis

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Originally Posted by butler08 View Post
If billy conn had beaten louis in 41 but their careers thereafter followed the exact same course as they did in reality eg louis fighting 14 times after there fight excluding there rematch his retirement and come back both walcott fights the losses to charles and marciano.
So just to be clear, Louis never avenges the loss to Conn, correct?

In that case, Conn goes down as arguably THE greatest LHW of all time. His achievement will be seen as even bigger than Spinks' over Holmes. Meanwhile, Louis loses his own claim to the status of #1 all time HW and has a loss that will always be held against his legacy (similar to Holmes after losing to Spinks). As someone said, Louis becomes just another all time top 10 HW.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: If conn had defeated louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by butler08 View Post
If billy conn had beaten louis in 41 but their careers thereafter followed the exact same course as they did in reality eg louis fighting 14 times after there fight excluding there rematch his retirement and come back both walcott fights the losses to charles and marciano. And with conn fighting only more times 5 after louis before retiring.

My question is how would history look upon these to fighters if this was the course that both there careers followed?

Louis top 20 heavyweight, Conn top 15.
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