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Old 12-29-2010, 01:22 PM   #1
Il Duce
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Default Ali's Secret Weapons (Jimmy Ellis + Cody Jones)

Muhammad Ali utilized both these quick boxers for both Sonny Liston fights.

Harvey 'Cody' Jones a very hard puncher, had a quicker left hook than
Sonny Liston, with equal power.

Jimmy Ellis, imitated Sonny Liston's style, with lunging left jabs.

Following a sparring session with Amos Lincoln, in which Jimmy Ellis was a quiet observer. After leaving the session, Ellis told Philadelphia Inquirer
sports-reporter Jack McKinney,,,,,,,'this fight will be over in less than
3 rounds'.
Jimmy Ellis followed, 'no way Liston can beat the Champ, not with those lunging left jabs, they leave Sonny wide open for a short right over the top'.

Opening odds on the fight were 9-5 for Liston.
Soon after Jack McKinney wrote an observation article in the newspaper,
odds dropped to 13-10 for Liston.

The Ali camp knew Liston had 'cracks in the armor.'
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:57 PM   #2
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Default Re: Ali's Secret Weapons (Jimmy Ellis + Cody Jones)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
Muhammad Ali utilized both these quick boxers for both Sonny Liston fights.

Harvey 'Cody' Jones a very hard puncher, had a quicker left hook than
Sonny Liston, with equal power.

Jimmy Ellis, imitated Sonny Liston's style, with lunging left jabs.

Following a sparring session with Amos Lincoln, in which Jimmy Ellis was a quiet observer. After leaving the session, Ellis told Philadelphia Inquirer
sports-reporter Jack McKinney,,,,,,,'this fight will be over in less than
3 rounds'.
Jimmy Ellis followed, 'no way Liston can beat the Champ, not with those lunging left jabs, they leave Sonny wide open for a short right over the top'.

Opening odds on the fight were 9-5 for Liston.
Soon after Jack McKinney wrote an observation article in the newspaper,
odds dropped to 13-10 for Liston.

The Ali camp knew Liston had 'cracks in the armor.'
Very good info....keep posting up other "insights" regarding similar fights.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:25 PM   #3
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Default Re: Ali's Secret Weapons (Jimmy Ellis + Cody Jones)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longhhorn71 View Post
Very good info....keep posting up other "insights" regarding similar fights.
Agreed.

You're a great new edition to the forum by the way Duce, you certainly breathe some fresh air and new insight into the board.
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Old 12-31-2010, 03:39 AM   #4
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Default Re: Ali's Secret Weapons (Jimmy Ellis + Cody Jones)

Thank You Sirs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Don't forget 'Shotgun' Sheldon,
a tough little middleweight who also immitated a smaller version of Sonny Liston.
5' 8" 170 lbs.

Cassius Clay in the spring of 1964, was well-prepared.

The big guys, Mel Turnbow and Dave Bailey would just pressure him, in helping
Clay improve his side-stepping skills.

Chip Johnson, a hard-puncher, who had a heavy right hand, was also good help.

All were young, strong guys, who had some quickness.
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:55 AM   #5
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Default Re: Ali's Secret Weapons (Jimmy Ellis + Cody Jones)

That was interesting.

Thing is Ali started countering early on with lead rights in this fight. He had tagged Sonny with a good one shortly before the end. I think Liston felt very early that things wouldn't go his way. Ali moved with more purpose and confidence and was there to punish every mistake Sonny made, unlike the first where his overriding concern early on had been to not get hit.

When Ali connected with that short right counter I think an aging Liston was off balance, couldn't react to it in time and went down. When he was on the floor he saw no real reason to get up and instead rolled over theatrically. We will never know for sure, but I think this guess is the one that holds up the best. It doesn't call for a lot of innuendo.
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Old 12-31-2010, 09:10 AM   #6
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Default Re: Ali's Secret Weapons (Jimmy Ellis + Cody Jones)

Bokaj,

The one thing that always crossed my mind, looking at that fight in Maine.
Not that the punch had a lot of power,

But as Liston was shooting out that long left, he was open for that short right and was
way off balance, 'straddle-legged'.
It may have had enough down force to get him to stumble forward, which he did for
brief flash, and with all his weight going forward, he just went down.
A half punch/half stumble.
A punch, later stated by the great writer Jimmy Cannon, who was sitting right there
'that punch didn't have enough force to crush a grape'.

Maybe embarrassed by being on the canvas, Sonny said 'the hell with it'.
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