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Old 12-30-2010, 07:30 PM   #1
Russell
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Default Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

Now before a collective mob castrates me, hear me out.

I'm not saying he isn't a blatantly great fighter. But I want to hear some strong arguments for his case.

To be honest, footage of him is lacking, something some are harsh on a fighter for.

Another facet, his greatness seems to be partially word of mouth from very respected, more "cemented" greats like Archie Moore.

Currently watching the analyzing genius video on youtube about Burley as well. Here's a link for anyone who hasn't seen it.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81non05aKX4[/ame]
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:32 PM   #2
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

Also, what was up with Burley's two losses to Ezzard Charles?

Now Ezzard Charles is a consensus top 20, top 15 ATG great in many peoples opinions, or so I've seen. So its no knock against Burley really. But why did he lose to Ezzard consistently like that and seemingly struggle with some lesser competition?
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

I'd say Ezzard is top ten for a lot of people
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

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Originally Posted by Russell View Post
Also, what was up with Burley's two losses to Ezzard Charles?

Now Ezzard Charles is a consensus top 20, top 15 ATG great in many peoples opinions, or so I've seen. So its no knock against Burley really. But why did he lose to Ezzard consistently like that and seemingly struggle with some lesser competition?
Because he fought everyone in 1 of the best eras ever and gave up around 8lbs to an ATG in Charles (if memory serves me right). Despite being a natural WW he beat the crap out of nearly every MW in maybe the greatest era and had amazing skills
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:42 PM   #5
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
Also, what was up with Burley's two losses to Ezzard Charles?

Now Ezzard Charles is a consensus top 20, top 15 ATG great in many peoples opinions, or so I've seen. So its no knock against Burley really. But why did he lose to Ezzard consistently like that and seemingly struggle with some lesser competition?
I rank Charles higher than Burley. Becuse of his two wins over him. Both are top 10 worthy.
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:59 PM   #6
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

..........

Last edited by ecto55; 06-10-2011 at 02:35 AM.
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

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Originally Posted by ecto55 View Post
I've read Rosenfeld's book on Burley, and Harry Otty's book is in the mail as we speak...but I'm already firmly convinced that Burley was all that he was cracked up to be. The Rosenfeld book was sadly light on details when it came to Burley fights, and the Ezzard Chalres fight was also the case, mabye the Otty book doesn't make the same mistake...

However, 'In the Corner' has a great anecdote of one of those famous Stillman's trainers (either Brown, Arcel, Bimstein or Dundee) finding out that one of his fighters had been matched with Burley. Such was Burley's 'legend' even then that the sole aim of the trainer was to get his man through the fight physically intact- winning the fight never even came into it. The fighter basically shadow boxed his way through the fight, stunk the venue out but came through unscathed..Burley didn't press the action when he saw the guy conceding every round. I think it was Whitey Bimstein who was the cornerman, anyway- it speaks volumes about the high regard and trepidation with which the fight game held Burley in.

Losing to Ezzard Charles is no shame- could have been a style, size or any other kind of 'thing'.
Similary, Archie Moore who was closer to Ezzard's size than Burley lost to Ezzard 3-0, few sane people doubt Archie's abilities, although by sticking around into the TV era the Ageless One gives the cynics more 'evidence' and tangible accomplishments.
Also, reports apperently exist that claim Burley handled Archie with ease on short notice, dropping his three times on the wayto a decision...for me that seems sufficient, along with Archie's own testimony and praise, to see Charley Burley placed in the same bracket in terms of boxing ability.
Savvy 'n well written, e. You're a welcome addition.
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

..........

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Old 12-30-2010, 11:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecto55 View Post
I've read Rosenfeld's book on Burley, and Harry Otty's book is in the mail as we speak...but I'm already firmly convinced that Burley was all that he was cracked up to be. The Rosenfeld book was sadly light on details when it came to Burley fights, and the Ezzard Chalres fight was also the case, mabye the Otty book doesn't make the same mistake...

However, 'In the Corner' has a great anecdote of one of those famous Stillman's trainers (either Brown, Arcel, Bimstein or Dundee) finding out that one of his fighters had been matched with Burley. Such was Burley's 'legend' even then that the sole aim of the trainer was to get his man through the fight physically intact- winning the fight never even came into it. The fighter basically shadow boxed his way through the fight, stunk the venue out but came through unscathed..Burley didn't press the action when he saw the guy conceding every round. I think it was Whitey Bimstein who was the cornerman, anyway- it speaks volumes about the high regard and trepidation with which the fight game held Burley in.

Losing to Ezzard Charles is no shame- could have been a style, size or any other kind of 'thing'.
Similary, Archie Moore who was closer to Ezzard's size than Burley lost to Ezzard 3-0, few sane people doubt Archie's abilities, although by sticking around into the TV era the Ageless One gives the cynics more 'evidence' and tangible accomplishments.
Also, reports apperently exist that claim Burley handled Archie with ease on short notice, dropping his three times on the wayto a decision...for me that seems sufficient, along with Archie's own testimony and praise, to see Charley Burley placed in the same bracket in terms of boxing ability.

Welcome aboard man; we need guys like you here.
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:40 AM   #10
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

[quote=ecto55;8567118]I've read Rosenfeld's book on Burley, and Harry Otty's book is in the mail as we speak...but I'm already firmly convinced that Burley was all that he was cracked up to be. The Rosenfeld book was sadly light on details when it came to Burley fights, and the Ezzard Chalres fight was also the case, mabye the Otty book doesn't make the same mistake...

However, 'In the Corner' has a great anecdote of one of those famous Stillman's trainers (either Brown, Arcel, Bimstein or Dundee) finding out that one of his fighters had been matched with Burley. Such was Burley's 'legend' even then that the sole aim of the trainer was to get his man through the fight physically intact- winning the fight never even came into it. The fighter basically shadow boxed his way through the fight, stunk the venue out but came through unscathed..Burley didn't press the action when he saw the guy conceding every round. I think it was Whitey Bimstein who was the cornerman, anyway- it speaks volumes about the high regard and trepidation with which the fight game held Burley in.

Reference is to Ray Arcel and Billy Soose
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:49 AM   #11
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

From the typewriter of the incomparable Regis M. Welsh
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:25 AM   #12
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

The man was brilliant it is a shame we don't see fighter's like this now, on the other hand we must remember that we do have a fight and all styles can be effective as Marciano proved.
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Old 12-31-2010, 10:32 AM   #13
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

burley was working, got the notice to fight moore, left his job, caught a bus to the fight, beat moore and then caught the bus home and went to work the next day.

great story.
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Old 12-31-2010, 04:46 PM   #14
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

Quote:
Originally Posted by amhlilhaus View Post
burley was working, got the notice to fight moore, left his job, caught a bus to the fight, beat moore and then caught the bus home and went to work the next day.

great story.
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Old 01-01-2011, 11:58 AM   #15
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

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Originally Posted by amhlilhaus View Post
burley was working, got the notice to fight moore, left his job, caught a bus to the fight, beat moore and then caught the bus home and went to work the next day.

great story.
However... it may be just that -a story.
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