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Old 01-02-2011, 12:03 PM   #61
teeto
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Default Re: Who were the best fighters Hopkins beat at MIDDLEWEIGHT ?

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I rate Jones' win over Hopkins too. But the contention that Hopkins wasn't as seasoned and savvy as he became later has a degree of validity.
It does, i've not contested that. I see people citing it as not even a good win though, which is bullshit.
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Old 01-02-2011, 12:06 PM   #62
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Default Re: Who were the best fighters Hopkins beat at MIDDLEWEIGHT ?

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Itīs reasonable. Iīm not saygin that win must be over Haglerīs but it should be considered and itīs close.

Well, quite a few of the fighters he fought were sh*t after he beat them, so perhaps, just perhaps, he has something to do with his resume looking worse than it should.
No, the vast majority of his defences were against fighters who hadn't proved a thing BEFORE they fought him either.
Really, middleweights who weren't established at all. Glen Johnson and Joe Lipsey have been mentioned, and I really don't know who they beat to be considered top contenders.

I think the mid-1990s- early 2000s middleweights really suffered from the 168-pound division splitting away the talent, maybe.
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:30 PM   #63
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Default Re: Who were the best fighters Hopkins beat at MIDDLEWEIGHT ?

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It does, i've not contested that. I see people citing it as not even a good win though, which is bullshit.
Hopkins was as proven against Jones as Johnson was against him.


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No, the vast majority of his defences were against fighters who hadn't proved a thing BEFORE they fought him either.
Really, middleweights who weren't established at all. Glen Johnson and Joe Lipsey have been mentioned, and I really don't know who they beat to be considered top contenders.

I think the mid-1990s- early 2000s middleweights really suffered from the 168-pound division splitting away the talent, maybe.
Yes, it was a dry time, itīs as bad, if not worse know but there are a few good propects/rising contenders out there. And of course Hopkins absolutly dominated that division.
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:47 PM   #64
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Default Re: Who were the best fighters Hopkins beat at MIDDLEWEIGHT ?

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Hopkins was as proven against Jones as Johnson was against him.
Yeah, or at least almost.
But Roy Jones was only an up-and-comer too, at the time.
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:51 PM   #65
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Default Re: Who were the best fighters Hopkins beat at MIDDLEWEIGHT ?

Jones at middleweight was as good as he ever was
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:03 PM   #66
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Default Re: Who were the best fighters Hopkins beat at MIDDLEWEIGHT ?

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Hopkins was as proven against Jones as Johnson was against him.




.
Yes, and i'm not the one disregarding the Johnson win, and i'm not the one using the 'proven' theory. Maybe you misread what i posted.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:11 PM   #67
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Default Re: Who were the best fighters Hopkins beat at MIDDLEWEIGHT ?

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Yes, and i'm not the one disregarding the Johnson win, and i'm not the one using the 'proven' theory. Maybe you misread what i posted.
I just stated the obvious. Neutral. How you value those wins is up to you. But if you rate one win high, than you have to do the same with the other. Same, the other way around. Thatīs all Iīm saying.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:15 PM   #68
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Default Re: Who were the best fighters Hopkins beat at MIDDLEWEIGHT ?

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I just stated the obvious. Neutral. How you value those wins is up to you. But if you rate one win high, than you have to do the same with the other. Same, the other way around. Thatīs all Iīm saying.
Yeah, i haven't disagreed with that though, i was the one saying this earlier, as i said playing Devil's advocate and trying to point out double standards.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:18 PM   #69
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Default Re: Who were the best fighters Hopkins beat at MIDDLEWEIGHT ?

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Yeah, i haven't disagreed with that though, i was the one saying this earlier, as i said playing Devil's advocate and trying to point out double standards.
Of whom?
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:24 PM   #70
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Default Re: Who were the best fighters Hopkins beat at MIDDLEWEIGHT ?

To conclude so far: Tito is the best he beat and then, quite a bit below, is Johnson (DLH was at a catch weight, right)? And after that? Can someone try a top 5?
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:26 PM   #71
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Default Re: Who were the best fighters Hopkins beat at MIDDLEWEIGHT ?

1. Trinidad
2. Echols
3. Joppy
4. Holmes
5. Jackson

Something like that.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:28 PM   #72
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Default Re: Who were the best fighters Hopkins beat at MIDDLEWEIGHT ?

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The Trinidad is underrated, people talk like Trinidad wasn't established at 160, he's a great win to have at 147 and 154, he is a good win to have at 160.
Most people had Trinidad to win at the time,the pre fight reviews I read had him taking it by KO.Its a shame it gets treated as Hopkins beating a smaller fighter because it was a good fight and a good win.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:29 PM   #73
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Default Re: Who were the best fighters Hopkins beat at MIDDLEWEIGHT ?

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Yeah, i haven't disagreed with that though, i was the one saying this earlier, as i said playing Devil's advocate and trying to point out double standards.
People were saying that Johnson wasn't proven at MW when Hopkins beat him etc etc, so i said that Hearns had done nothing at mw when Hagler beat him, so you gotta apply the same logic to him if you do so to Hopkins. I was playing devil's advocate.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:30 PM   #74
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Default Re: Who were the best fighters Hopkins beat at MIDDLEWEIGHT ?

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Most people had Trinidad to win at the time,the pre fight reviews I read had him taking it by KO.Its a shame it gets treated as Hopkins beating a smaller fighter because it was a good fight and a good win.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:43 PM   #75
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Default Re: Who were the best fighters Hopkins beat at MIDDLEWEIGHT ?

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1. Trinidad
2. Echols
3. Joppy
4. Holmes
5. Jackson

Something like that.
No Johnson?
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