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Old 03-07-2011, 02:36 AM   #31
ironchamp
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Default Re: Teddy Atlas Picked David Tua To Knock Out Lennox Lewis In 2000

I rooted for Tua because at the time I didn't like Lewis nor was I convinced of his ability; often looking for reasons why he simply wouldn't beat the top fighters. I had a gut feeling that Lewis would win but I wanted to believe otherwise.

Tua simply mailed it in after 2-3 rounds, I think that if Tua stepped up the pressure he would have been knocked out.
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Old 03-07-2011, 02:48 AM   #32
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Default Re: Teddy Atlas Picked David Tua To Knock Out Lennox Lewis In 2000

David Tua pre-Ibeabuchi stood a great chance to get inside of Lewis reach and KHTFO.......

Tua however was'nt the same fighter after the Ibeabuchi fight.
From that fight on, he was'nt willing to pay the price to get inside.


.......everybody who anticipated the Tua-Lewis fight expected more, but it became apparent within the first few rounds as Teddy Atlas often say's, "both fighters made a silent pact with eachother. I dont try to knock you head off if you dont mine."

Lewis-Tua was no more than a glorified sparring session.
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Old 03-07-2011, 03:34 AM   #33
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Default Re: Teddy Atlas Picked David Tua To Knock Out Lennox Lewis In 2000

A different class of fighter frankly.

David Tua is very good, and had great power, and some tricks, but Lewis is frankly a top 10 heavyweight. Too good, too strong, too wily.

David could have come in in better shape. But saying anything else is wishful thinking. Lennox had him confused and beaten very early. He got David's respect, kept the jab in his face, turned him and clinched.

Saying that David just decided not to work the body and shit and had he made better decisions, he would have won? Bull. He made the decisions he made in big part because of who he was fighting and what that guy was doing. Such is it with most fights.

Lennox W12 Tua.
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:01 AM   #34
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Default Re: Teddy Atlas Picked David Tua To Knock Out Lennox Lewis In 2000

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
A different class of fighter frankly.

David Tua is very good, and had great power, and some tricks, but Lewis is frankly a top 10 heavyweight. Too good, too strong, too wily.

David could have come in in better shape. But saying anything else is wishful thinking. Lennox had him confused and beaten very early. He got David's respect, kept the jab in his face, turned him and clinched.

Saying that David just decided not to work the body and shit and had he made better decisions, he would have won? Bull. He made the decisions he made in big part because of who he was fighting and what that guy was doing. Such is it with most fights.

Lennox W12 Tua.

What would you say happened to Tua that he became irrelevant in the heavyweight landscape after that Lewis fight?

Its like he came into that Lewis fight already having lost the fire that a fighter his height in the Heavyweight divsion absolutely must have.

I think its clear to see. The Tua up to and including the Ibeabuchi war, fought with passion.
Tua after that fight fought like a fighter just going through the motions, the passion has never been the same since the Ibeabuchi fight.

I think thats why I find it a problem giving much credit to Lennox Lewis victory over Tua.

Tua has'nt looked good against any Heavyweight with decent skills since the Ibeabuchi fight.
Even in fights he won like the first Rahman fight, Rahman was thoroughly outboxing Tua before Tua caught him and it seems the fight was stopped to early.

......then after the Lewis fight, Tua who did not take a beating from Lennox, does'nt have a relevant win on his ledger.

I just dont look at Tua as a relevent win for Lewis.
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:41 AM   #35
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Default Re: Teddy Atlas Picked David Tua To Knock Out Lennox Lewis In 2000

LL was always gonna win this. Too cautious to get caught.
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Old 03-07-2011, 04:44 PM   #36
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Default Re: Teddy Atlas Picked David Tua To Knock Out Lennox Lewis In 2000

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
.

Saying that David just decided not to work the body and shit and had he made better decisions, he would have won? Bull.
It's not bull. It's a fact. After Tua's first loss, his weight began to go up. He wasn't motivated anymore, and relied only on his power. The busier David Tua from 1995-1997 would have put pressure on Lewis. Don't get me wrong. Lewis was a great fighter. But there were times when Tua had Lewis trapped against the ropes with his hands down, but David threw nothing. Same thing happened numerous times in the Chris Byrd fight.

The earlier version of Tua would have been much busier against both men. But in the 2000s, Tua just plodded forward, hoping to end things with one miracle left hook. Pre-Ibeabuchi David Tua worked the body, threw combinations, slipped punches better, and knew how to set up that killer left hook.

And let me end it on this note. Teddy Atlas said this.

Quote:
Lewis, even at his height, allows you to get close at times. Holyfield got close, and in both fights, he stung Lewis. Tua can potentially do more than sting him. All Tua needs is that one left hook on the chin.
Very true. Holyfield got in close quite often during their rematch. All Tua had to do was stay busy. And the hungry, earlier version of Tua would have committed himself to doing so.
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:21 PM   #37
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Default Re: Teddy Atlas Picked David Tua To Knock Out Lennox Lewis In 2000

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It's not bull. It's a fact. After Tua's first loss, his weight began to go up. He wasn't motivated anymore, and relied only on his power. The busier David Tua from 1995-1997 would have put pressure on Lewis. Don't get me wrong. Lewis was a great fighter. But there were times when Tua had Lewis trapped against the ropes with his hands down, but David threw nothing. Same thing happened numerous times in the Chris Byrd fight.

The earlier version of Tua would have been much busier against both men. But in the 2000s, Tua just plodded forward, hoping to end things with one miracle left hook. Pre-Ibeabuchi David Tua worked the body, threw combinations, slipped punches better, and knew how to set up that killer left hook.

And let me end it on this note. Teddy Atlas said this.



Very true. Holyfield got in close quite often during their rematch. All Tua had to do was stay busy. And the hungry, earlier version of Tua would have committed himself to doing so.
He'd have still been hit in the face just as hard by Lennox, still kept at the end of the jab, and still beaten. Possibly stopped. Thats my stance.

To divac: I actually agree that it is not a relevant win on Lewis' ledger. But he still beat him, decisively, with little reason to believe he couldn't have done otherwise no matter the shift in tactics. You don't get schooled for 12 rounds and miraculously reverse that outcome just cause you "go to the body more." A schooling is almost a more decisive result that a 1st round KO.

Agree to disagree, though, I suppose. Differences in opinion make boxing great, and I must say, his fight with Ibeabuchi was a barn burner I still watch over today.
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:50 PM   #38
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Default Re: Teddy Atlas Picked David Tua To Knock Out Lennox Lewis In 2000

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
He'd have still been hit in the face just as hard by Lennox, still kept at the end of the jab, and still beaten. Possibly stopped. Thats my stance.
I think the 90s version of Tua with Lou Duva would do so much better because he had busier hands, but at the end of the day, he got exposed and schooled by Lennox when he actually got the title shot. :( And then the next year, Lennox is derailed by Hasim Rahman. God certainly has a sense of humor.

I also wanted to point this out. I think it was the end of the 2nd or 3rd round when Tua landed a good left hook on the nose of Lewis that staggered him into the ropes. David didn't even attempt to rush in and finish him. Sad. Tua made quick work of contenders like John Ruiz when he had them hurt, but when he actually had the World title shot, he folded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Agree to disagree, though, I suppose. Differences in opinion make boxing great, and I must say, his fight with Ibeabuchi was a barn burner I still watch over today.
Agreed. In your opinion, who won the Tua/Ibeabuchi fight? I think Tua won it personally, but since Ike landed the larger number of punches, I can somewhat see why the judges gave him the nod.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:29 AM   #39
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Default Re: Teddy Atlas Picked David Tua To Knock Out Lennox Lewis In 2000

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Originally Posted by Tuaman View Post
I think the 90s version of Tua with Lou Duva would do so much better because he had busier hands, but at the end of the day, he got exposed and schooled by Lennox when he actually got the title shot. :( And then the next year, Lennox is derailed by Hasim Rahman. God certainly has a sense of humor.

I also wanted to point this out. I think it was the end of the 2nd or 3rd round when Tua landed a good left hook on the nose of Lewis that staggered him into the ropes. David didn't even attempt to rush in and finish him. Sad. Tua made quick work of contenders like John Ruiz when he had them hurt, but when he actually had the World title shot, he folded.



Agreed. In your opinion, who won the Tua/Ibeabuchi fight? I think Tua won it personally, but since Ike landed the larger number of punches, I can somewhat see why the judges gave him the nod.
Lewis was relaxed and having fun nearly from the get go. If he was actually hurt, or seriously focused and a murderous Tua, he wouldn't have fought so lazily. Lennox fought like a pro sparring an amateur: Absolutely nothing to be worried about.

I do agree though-Had Tua rushed him the couple of times he landed well, Lewis would have needed to get deadly serious mighty fast.

Had Tua-Ike a draw myself. Close, hard fight.
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:17 AM   #40
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Default Re: Teddy Atlas Picked David Tua To Knock Out Lennox Lewis In 2000

The Tua of 225 lbs still had major problems with guys that gave him consistant jabbing and movement. He still had the bad habit of coming forward in straight lines and not getting off with the right punches. He lost the Ike fight, debatable as the decision was, thanks to some really unintelligent choices at key points. Did he let the Ruiz KO go to his head a la Ruddock, falling in love with his power? Increasingly his power became a crutch for him to rely on.

There's too much about Tua that smacks of convience and hand-waving when it comes to his failings. What he could do well got him so far, very far, but he never put in the right effort and commitment in just one or two other areas that could've seen him actually become a champion.

That's a mental aspect. And no matter what you can do physically, if you don't quite have it mentally then you're in danger of not reaching that top spot.

This one might be a tough one for some people to swallow, I'm not much keen on admitting it either but I think it's true - if Tua had had the kind of mental stubbornness John Ruiz had, he would've had a belt as well.
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:36 AM   #41
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Default Re: Teddy Atlas Picked David Tua To Knock Out Lennox Lewis In 2000

And worked on his legs. He is a classic example of a guy with tools from the shoulders up. It's below the waist and what work is done to improve the weak part of his game. He just wasn't a guy to bother with footwork and preferred the heavybag to jogging and skipping rope. A flatfooted short heavyweight is going to be in trouble.

Some ringsmarts would have helped as well and not having that asset costs you sooner or later as well facing top shelf competition.
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