Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-08-2011, 04:12 PM   #16
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,543
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalasinn View Post
So, how long does Langford last against Liston, Tyson & Foreman?
I'll ask you the same question in reverse.

Tyson would likely be the best puncher, overall, that Tyson had ever beaten had he beaten him.

He would be the HW that Liston had beaten.

He would be perhaps the second best boxer that Foreman had beaten.


Knocking Langford out was ****ing hard. There's no hint of a weakness where chin is concerned. Granite chin, great counter-puncher.
McGrain is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-08-2011, 04:29 PM   #17
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,629
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

I don't give him much chance against the taller/big jabbers (LEnnox, Wlad, Vitali, Holmes, Ali, Douglas) based on the Johnson/Wills/Fulton losses (although he was half blind against Fulton I think). Foreman reach usually smashes pressure fighters on the way inside, so did Liston and both had long powerful jabs

I question how his durability would handle punchers from bigger men like Tyson, Louis, Foreman, Liston. Bowe I think is just too big, durable and hard hitting, but who knows maybe Wills was as good as Bowe, I doubt it but you never know, Baer is a similar problem to Bowe but not as big/good, Jeffries too is a similar size/durability problem but I think Langford to be the better boxer and puncher in that match up

Marciano, Frazier and Dempsey aren't too much bigger so I think in terms of strength, power and durability he has a greater chance, I think I favour those men but give him a 40% chance against all

I question how he handles bigger boxer punchers like Holyfield and Moorer. Patterson and Charles while the same size may well be better than him. I think I give an edge to Walcott too

Schmelling and Tunney are toss ups, I probably favour him over Johannson, Sharkey and Braddock, I think he knocks out both Spinks Bros

A question, who is the biggest puncher Langford faced?
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 04:38 PM   #18
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,381
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
You'd have to if he was the champ!

Langford seemed to struggle with Fred Fulton because of his height and reach advantage married to a decent jab. Lewis and Wlad would enjoy height advantages of around a foot. I'm going to go ahead an assume that each has a better jab than Fulton, that each was a harder puncher than Fulton, that each was better at controlling range and tempo than Fulton. That isn't science, but it's based on the fact that these men are amongst the very best ever on film doing these things.

Additionally, both are enormously heavy-handed and exact a toll on any fighter who wants to take the distance from them.
I am a little baffled that people use the Fulton fight as evidence that Langford would loose to fighters with a similar style.

How far gone does he have to be before we chalk it up to his condition.

Frankly I wonder if a prime Langford might just have gone though Fulton just like Dempsey and Wills did.

Quote:
Does Langford have a puncher's chance? Possibly, but he'd be slipping inside a gargantuam reach against men who are expert in controlling smaller fighters inside. He would also be trapping to punch up about 10 inches. None of that is normal, even for Sam.

Money would go down on these two.
McCall and Ramhan got their shot in against Lewis partly by luck.

Langford would base his entire fight plan around setting up that shot and who is to say that he wouldnt land it?
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 04:39 PM   #19
Kalasinn
♧ OG Kally ♤
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: from parts unknown
Posts: 9,177
vCash: 1200
Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Knocking Langford out was ****ing hard. There's no hint of a weakness where chin is concerned. Granite chin, great counter-puncher.
I wasn't questioning his chin, i'm just somewhat unsure how someone under 200lbs, even as durable as Langford, may handle the power of such devastating elite punchers.
Kalasinn is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 04:45 PM   #20
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,381
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
I don't give him much chance against the taller/big jabbers (LEnnox, Wlad, Vitali, Holmes, Ali, Douglas) based on the Johnson/Wills/Fulton losses (although he was half blind against Fulton I think). Foreman reach usually smashes pressure fighters on the way inside, so did Liston and both had long powerful jabs
Langford is not a pressure fighter so much as a hybrid.

If you cross the DNA of Jack Dempsey and James Toney, you will get something a bit like Langford.

Quote:
I question how his durability would handle punchers from bigger men like Tyson, Louis, Foreman, Liston. Bowe I think is just too big, durable and hard hitting, but who knows maybe Wills was as good as Bowe, I doubt it but you never know, Baer is a similar problem to Bowe but not as big/good, Jeffries too is a similar size/durability problem but I think Langford to be the better boxer and puncher in that match up

Marciano, Frazier and Dempsey aren't too much bigger so I think in terms of strength, power and durability he has a greater chance, I think I favour those men but give him a 40% chance against all

I question how he handles bigger boxer punchers like Holyfield and Moorer. Patterson and Charles while the same size may well be better than him. I think I give an edge to Walcott too

Schmelling and Tunney are toss ups, I probably favour him over Johannson, Sharkey and Braddock, I think he knocks out both Spinks Bros

A question, who is the biggest puncher Langford faced?
He fought a whole myriad of murderous punchers. More than any heavyweight champion before Muhamad Ali for certain. Hard to say which hit hardest, but Sam McVea would be my guess.

He also faced elite fighters who were as big as the Klitschko's.

I honestly don't think that you could put much in front of Langford that he had not seen before.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 04:46 PM   #21
DonBoxer
The Lion!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In Vitalis cut.
Posts: 4,033
vCash: 75
Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalasinn View Post
I wasn't questioning his chin, i'm just somewhat unsure how someone under 200lbs, even as durable as Langford, may handle the power of such devastating elite punchers.
Wille Meehan beat Langford . Can anyone beat Meehan over 4 rounds ?
DonBoxer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 04:46 PM   #22
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,381
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonBoxer View Post
Wille Meehan beat Langford . Can anyone beat Meehan over 4 rounds ?
No.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 04:46 PM   #23
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,543
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post


I am a little baffled that people use the Fulton fight as evidence that Langford would loose to fighters with a similar style.
The main reason is that Langford didn't tend to fight men of these dimensions who seemed to relly upon this punch.

Quote:
How far gone does he have to be before we chalk it up to his condition.
Langford seems to have recieved a brain injury during this fight, but was being badly out-boxed before that. Any point after the brain injury, Langford is seriously post-prime, before that, he is just on the decline. I'm obviously unsure as to how much faster and more accurate Langford was, as we all are, my guess is Fulton troubles Langford any time, and it's specifically because he didn't go through him like Demspey and Wills, fighters in his class, that we have to wonder.

Langford was capable of "going through" men in the run up to this fight, but it should be noted that he was already struggling with Big Bill Tate, who at Lewis's sky-scraping height set Langford a real problem before his sight was impaired.



Quote:
McCall and Ramhan got their shot in against Lewis partly by luck.

Langford would base his entire fight plan around setting up that shot and who is to say that he wouldnt land it?
Well I say that his trying to land it with a reach differential of one foot and a height differential of not much less, makes me confident in my pick. As well as being the best fighter Langford had ever faced (in real terms, not pound for pound) a man like Lewis enjoys massive advantages for any fighter.

Even if Langford is actually a better HW thank Lennox Lewis (obviously hugely debatable) overcoming these differences is a monumental task, and one that his fights with lesser men seems to indicate is beyond him.
McGrain is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 04:48 PM   #24
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,543
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalasinn View Post
I wasn't questioning his chin, i'm just somewhat unsure how someone under 200lbs, even as durable as Langford, may handle the power of such devastating elite punchers.
Again, there is very little to indicate Mike Tyson (For example) is equal to the task of fighting an elite HW like Langford.

I do take your point though, and I would favour two of the the three men you list to beat him, I just don't think it's as clear cut as the men I mentioned.
McGrain is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 04:53 PM   #25
Kalasinn
♧ OG Kally ♤
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: from parts unknown
Posts: 9,177
vCash: 1200
Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonBoxer View Post
Wille Meehan beat Langford . Can anyone beat Meehan over 4 rounds ?
Tokyo Douglas!
Kalasinn is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 04:58 PM   #26
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,381
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
The main reason is that Langford didn't tend to fight men of these dimensions who seemed to relly upon this punch.
Not good logic.

It would be a bit like arguing that Larry Holmes always had the tools to beat Muhamad Ali. Maybe he did, but I would not inferr it from that fight.

Quote:
Langford seems to have recieved a brain injury during this fight, but was being badly out-boxed before that. Any point after the brain injury, Langford is seriously post-prime, before that, he is just on the decline. I'm obviously unsure as to how much faster and more accurate Langford was, as we all are, my guess is Fulton troubles Langford any time, and it's specifically because he didn't go through him like Demspey and Wills, fighters in his class, that we have to wonder.
Langford would not just have lost his reflexes but also his feet.

Read reports of a past prime Langford toying with the same Harry Wills who would later demolish Fred Fulton.

Quote:
Langford was capable of "going through" men in the run up to this fight, but it should be noted that he was already struggling with Big Bill Tate, who at Lewis's sky-scraping height set Langford a real problem before his sight was impaired.
The fact that he was beating Tate at that stage of his career should give you pause for thought.

Quote:
Well I say that his trying to land it with a reach differential of one foot and a height differential of not much less, makes me confident in my pick. As well as being the best fighter Langford had ever faced (in real terms, not pound for pound) a man like Lewis enjoys massive advantages for any fighter.

Even if Langford is actually a better HW thank Lennox Lewis (obviously hugely debatable) overcoming these differences is a monumental task, and one that his fights with lesser men seems to indicate is beyond him.
Langford is exactly the type of fighter that Lewis should steer clear of. He is the type of fighter who might manufacture his worst case scenario, rather than exploit an opening.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 04:58 PM   #27
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,660
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post

He also faced elite fighters who were as big as the Klitschko's.
Who ?
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 04:58 PM   #28
Kalasinn
♧ OG Kally ♤
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: from parts unknown
Posts: 9,177
vCash: 1200
Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Again, there is very little to indicate Mike Tyson (For example) is equal to the task of fighting an elite HW like Langford.

I do take your point though, and I would favour two of the the three men you list to beat him, I just don't think it's as clear cut as the men I mentioned.
I bet it's Tyson you favour Langford to beat, you don't need to hide that.

Height & reach be damned, Langford has an intelligent puncher's chance against the fragile Wlad.

Wlad is extremely unproven, the only Tier 2 fighter he's beaten is Byrd, & i insist Chagaev doesn't count since he was suffering badly from Hepatitis.
Kalasinn is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 05:03 PM   #29
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,381
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Who ?
Bill Tate was suficiently well regarded during Jack Dempseys title reign that he nearly got a title shot over Harry Wills.

This is not a journeyman type fighter.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 05:04 PM   #30
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,381
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Again, there is very little to indicate Mike Tyson (For example) is equal to the task of fighting an elite HW like Langford.

I do take your point though, and I would favour two of the the three men you list to beat him, I just don't think it's as clear cut as the men I mentioned.
Just for the record, I would give Langford more chance against Lewis or Klitschko than Tyson.

Just my take.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013