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Old 01-10-2011, 05:40 PM   #91
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Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

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the magic 225lbs Tua.
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Old 01-10-2011, 05:44 PM   #92
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Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

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I also noticed you conveniently left the Tua-Byrd fight off your list, where Tua was in great shape at 218lbs and not only got thoroughly outboxed, but was also hurt by Byrd's body punches.
I don't believe he was 218.

Maybe 218 was the number he cut his monthly doughnut supply down to.
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Old 01-10-2011, 06:02 PM   #93
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Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

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A journeyman contender.

Buster Douglas was a journeyman. John Ruiz was a journeyman. Ron Lyle was a journeyman. Henry Cooper was a journeyman.
I would not describe any of those fighters as journeymen at the pinacle of their respective careers.

Surely they were journeymen who ultimately graduated to the status of contenders.
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Old 01-10-2011, 06:08 PM   #94
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Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

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The lowest possible difference is 2 and 1 half inches, the biggest is 4 and one half inches. 2 and 1 half inches is a significant difference, I think.

He lost both encounters and was seriously injured, he basically couldn't have done worse.

You can work with facts or speculation. Speculation tells as any number of things. The facts are that Langford couldn't keep himself for being beaten by Fulton, could draw with Wills, and Wills is better than Fulton.

What are we arguing about here?
Esentialy we are arguing because I question your thesis that the Fulton fight proves that Langford had a particular weakness vs this type of fighter.

I don't think it proves much one way or the other.

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The Fulton fight, especially, is just about Langford's inability to close the distance on a much taller fighter with a much better reach. But i'm repeating myself.

Ok, purely for rhetorical purposes, I conceed. Langford was no better than the Ali that lost to Holmes, your hypothetics about the Wills fights are true to me. Why do you think Langford is so adept at closing the distance on 6'6 240lb fighters?
I think that some of the early Wills fight suggest that he was verry adept at using footwork to outflank larger fighters and close distance.

Granted Wills was not 6' 6'' an 240lbs, but the skills were probably prety transferable.
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Old 01-10-2011, 07:15 PM   #95
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Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

If you want something of a modern visual for Langford against a tall super heavyweight, check out Foreman-Qawi, where Ike actually manages to win some rounds. We also know what Langford-Leon Spinks would look like thanks to the Buzzsaw.

Sam was an inch taller than Dwight, with an inch more reach. (Both men had freakishly long wingspans for their height, although much of that is collarbone length, as was the case with Liston.)

For the 20 rounds of Jeannette X in Paris, Langford was a solidly well conditioned and granite chinned 200 pound brick outhouse. But I can't see him taking the title by knocking out Willard (which he'd have to do under the rule set certain to be in place for such a challenge), Johnson in a rematch, or Jeffries (who was left arm impaired in the Sharkey rematch, hence all the damage inflicted in Sailor Tom by Jeff's right hand, on the left side of the challenger's face and body). In real time, Sam's only clear opportunity to become a champion was at the expense of Burns late in this fellow Canadian's reign, and I wouldn't put money on that outcome after watching how the rugged Tommy starched the favored Squires in one. (I don't think Langford was quite ready for Hart, or Burns through most of Tommy's time as champion.)

Reigning era Patterson was extremely vulnerable. Sam outreached Marciano as well as Floyd, and garnered two knockout wins past the championship distance. Frazier openly admitted that he didn't like taking on shorter opponents. For both Rocky and Joe, Langford could be a major headache. Schmeling was starched in one by Welsh LHW Gypsey Daniels in their rematch, so it's not impossible for Sam to turn the trick. Max would need to apply even more than usual vigilance here. A much past it and out of shape Walker did have his moments with Schmeling, and Mickey had five inches less of reach than the Nova Scotia native.

As erratic and volatile as Sharkey was, he could be very susceptible. Even at his best, this fellow transplanted Bostonian didn't have the punch to dent Langford.

Charles and Walcott would need to be at their best, as Sam had the power to drop and stop either. Here, we're clearly in masterclass territory.

Where Liston is concerned, the 200 pound Langford is big enough, durable enough, and tenacious enough to break Sonny's will. Sam would have been far smarter dealing with Liston than Patterson was. Slip the jab, counter, clinch, move, bide time, then drown the bigger man in the deep end of the pool. Langford weighed the same as Leotis Martin, was more solidly built, carried a bigger punch, and had a better chin. Sam by late knockout.

Jeannette showed me enough against Langford to convince me that Tunney and Corbett would have decisioned him. Both were taller than Jeanette, who did have some success using his height and speed to box from longer range.

Max Baer would have been at huge disadvantages in speed and accuracy. Nor did he share the same commitment post Campbell as prime Sam. Being tall and durable as he is though, Langford settles for a decision. The 5'9' Galento did have some moments with Maxie, even getting his short jab through.

Tyson had a terrific uppercut, but a style primarily geared for taller opponents. Sam's heart, stamina and durability creates interesting issues for Mike. Again, Langford would have a slight reach edge, the lower center of gravity, and the prime for prime weight disparity could be less than ten pounds if records are accurate.
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:44 PM   #96
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Default Re: Which of the lineal heavyweight champions would Sam Langford have beaten?

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I would not describe any of those fighters as journeymen at the pinacle of their respective careers.

Surely they were journeymen who ultimately graduated to the status of contenders.
Douglas was undisputed champion of the world, no less.
But as I've already stated, journeyman and contender aren't mutually exclusive terms.
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