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Old 01-08-2011, 03:11 AM   #1
la-califa
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Default Could Foreman ever defeat Ali.

Is there a stradegy that Foreman could use to defeat Ali?
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Old 01-08-2011, 03:16 AM   #2
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Default Re: Could Foreman ever defeat Ali.

Ali is his worst nightmare, he's basically unknockoutable, vastly more skilled and has a ridiculous edge in hand speed. It wouldn't happen 99 out of a hundred. Ropes be damned.
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Old 01-08-2011, 03:19 AM   #3
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Default Re: Could Foreman ever defeat Ali.

right now he could....
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Old 01-08-2011, 03:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: Could Foreman ever defeat Ali.

Old Foreman could beat Old Ali.

And by Old Ali I mean the fat one that showed up against Berbick (I'm not even gonna count the Holmes fight).
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: Could Foreman ever defeat Ali.

i think that on that night no fighter would of been able to beat ali ali used the rope a dope in the same manner as a magician pulls a rabbit out of his hat ali fought a fight that i would say was probably the best defensive and offensive ****nal ever used ali used the rope a dope to lure in foreman and get him to tire out yes foreman was landing devastating blows both to the body and to the head but ali great chin and superb rope a dope tactic gave ali the edge in which ali waited for the right moment and landed the shots to kayo foreman in saying that i do believe foreman would of won the rematch as he would have a different fight plan which would probably have a strategy consisting of a fight plan to better pace himself against the rope a dope
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: Could Foreman ever defeat Ali.

Maybe if Foreman had lost his arms in a tragic accident and they were replaced by chainsaws...

I dunno though... are there are rules about chainsaw arms in the boxing rulebook?
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:55 PM   #7
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Default Re: Could Foreman ever defeat Ali.

Prime for prime, Ali simply had his number. The speed advantage and effective use of reach is massively inequitable. Foreman couldn't get to his head as needed, while Chuvalo and Frazier failed to hammer him into submission with far more dedicated body attacks.

In Kinshasa, Ali exposed the left side of his body to Foreman's lethal right, and George took the invitation to no avail.

For a rematch, maybe Ali would simply have jabbed away while retreating as Young later did. Foreman wasn't Frazier, not somebody would could hustle for a decision win when his target taunted him instead of falling. Trying to win on the cards over that level of speed, skill and late round experience would have been a fool's errand, Why do you suppose George was out of commission for so long after Kinshasa? He knew how poorly he matched up with Ali head to head. His best hope to regain the title was for Frazier or Norton to dethrone Muhammad. (No, Foreman does not get it back if Young succeeds in upsetting Ali. In fact, it's no sure thing that he does if Lyle ascends to it in 1975, with the boost in confidence Ron achieves as a result of gaining the crown. Actually, I'm not sold on George defeating the well conditioned versions of Wepner and Bugner Muhammad beat in Cleveland and Kuala Lumpur, with Foreman's stamina deficit. As crude as Chuck was, he could take a shot, and lasted seven rounds longer with Ali than George just had. If Wepner doesn't open up like a faucet, Foreman could easily be foundering about again in the ugliest heavyweight rematch of the decade.)
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: Could Foreman ever defeat Ali.

Really... The old foreman who fought holyfield had more experience, better stamina,iron chin, so he would tko a more static version of ali 76-77 and a green ali 60-63. Ali 70-75 would have serious problems against this version of foreman90-91(ali might not do the tactic rope dope against this version of george, and this ali was too static to run from foreman) BUT HE WOULD WIN BY DECISION, even in 70-74 ali had fast hands, great chin,great stamina..
Green foreman 70-72 would destroy green ali 60-63. PRIME VS PRIME, ali would win 9/10 fights, ali was the kryptonite of foreman
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: Could Foreman ever defeat Ali.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KOTF View Post
Old Foreman could beat Old Ali.

And by Old Ali I mean the fat one that showed up against Berbick (I'm not even gonna count the Holmes fight).
OLD FOREMAN WOULD ABSOLUTELY KILL OLD ALI 78-81. WOULD KILL HIM.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: Could Foreman ever defeat Ali.

If you put old foremans head on young foreman he would beat a post 74 ALI. if given the chance he should have beat ali in 77. Lucky for ALI young george's head was not right and was not mature enough to pull it off. He sure had the tools.
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:12 PM   #11
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Default Re: Could Foreman ever defeat Ali.

I don't see any version of Foreman beating Ali.

Kryptonite. Chin, Handspeed, stamina, strength, movement, heart, ring intelligence, the list goes on.

How does old Foreman who threw about 15 punches a fight and got outboxed by scrubs beat a young Ali, i would be very interested to know...
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: Could Foreman ever defeat Ali.

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Originally Posted by Valane View Post
I don't see any version of Foreman beating Ali.

Kryptonite. Chin, Handspeed, stamina, strength, movement, heart, ring intelligence, the list goes on.

How does old Foreman who threw about 15 punches a fight and got outboxed by scrubs beat a young Ali, i would be very interested to know...
nobody care about your ****py opinion, you know nothing about boxing
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:10 PM   #13
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Default Re: Could Foreman ever defeat Ali.

I am not convinced that "Old" Foreman beats "Old" Ali. Old Foreman was so ponderously slow that he doesnt land a punch on any version of ali.

Dont ask me why, but on the spur of the moment, i just decided to rewatch Ali - Holmes for the first and probably last time in a very long time. Round one and two show that Holmes (who remember, is one of the all time fastest and best fighters around), Land no really serious clean blows on Ali at all. This is really interesting, because Ali has zero foot movement, and Ali virtually doesnt throw a punch in those rounds, but he still manages to duck and weave most of HOlmes shots. I cant see old Foreman's jab even look like landing, even on this version of Ali. Rounds three and four show Holmes taking over, but even still, he misses a lot of jabs and shots, and while he does land a few good ones, it is no more than a handful. And when you consider, Ali has zero punch output (almost literally) and zero lateral movement, it is astonishing that an ATG like Holmes is missing so often. Round 5 is interesting. Ali employs lateral movement for the first time in the fight. He gets on his toes and bounces. Ironically, Holmes (again, an ATG dancer himself) barely lands a clean punch, until near the end of the round, when the bouncing stops. I know people say it is Holmes taking it easy, but looking at the fight again, i dont think so. I think that Ali's rope a dope really played with more than Foremans mind. I really think Holmes was mentally wary of following Ali to the ropes and punching himself out, like foreman did. Round 6 shows that the dancing clearly took plenty out of Ali. He barely seems able to walk to centre ring. And for the (what i think is the first time), Holmes seems to start to land cleanly which each shot he throws. Saying that, amazingly, for the first time in the fight, Ali starts to throw a few punches. And he he demonstrating just how amazing he is at adapting during a fight, and lands about 6 left hand jabs to the body. That is more than i remember him landing in his entire career! This is the first fight where Ali does actually throw and land a few punches, though to be honest, there wasnt much behind them. Round 7, and Ali again enters the ring and it is obvious that he has to drag himself to centre the ring. But Ali does about 30 seconds or so, ali does start to move again, and for the first time actually lands a couple of decent Jabs, which has Holmse start to force the fight. It isnt until the end of the round where Holmes actually starts to pursue Ali on the ropes. I cant remember this round from previous viewings. It is possible that this could actually be scored as an even round or even shaded to Ali, although he didnt really land with anything with any vigour. Clearly this would be a different fight, if there was any sort of conditioning there for Ali. round 8 ends. I think that Holmes lands some of his best shots of the fight here, and it seems that Ali has been hurt the most here. I think this is the first time that Ali seems to really struggle to make Holmes miss at all. Also, amazingly, and i think that this is the first time in the entire fight where Holmes gets in close enough to actually allow Ali to try to clinch him. It is amazing there is no clinching whatsoever in the fight. I think i put this down to Holmes being very wary and not pursuing Ali in close, for fear of the rope a dope. I dont know whether to give credit for a young Holmes showing restraint and patience beyond his years, or to Ali for planting an amazing fear in the minds of his opponents. More than likely a combination of both.

Round 9 - This is easily Holmes best round, and the round where Ali just had nothing left. Holmes started to land regularly for the first time, imo, and this combined with Alis work rate dropping back to the same level as it was for the first 4 rounds. He just had nothing, i am surprised he drew himself out off the stool for the last round. round 10 was simply all Holmes.

Looking at this fight again, i think that Ali had Holmes mentally worried, and the reason it took Holmes so long to wear Ali out (he was looked worn out before round one) is because Holmes did not want to make a mistake. I think that the Rumble in the Jungle gave Ali a massive mental advantage over Holmes. Holmes one anyway, but no way did he carry him, even though i think he kos him in 2 or 3 rounds fi they rematched straight away. I think the same is true of Ali, he had Foreman Mentally.

Now with old foreman, he could not land like young foreman did in the jungle. He was too slow. He is going to (like Holmes) be very, very wary of chasing Ali to the ropes. And old Ali (even the version who fought Holmes) is going to land much more often and busier. When young and fast Holmes was missing regularly early, how is it possible that old George will land? and if he does, he will not follow it up to the ropes, so he will not take advantage. And Old George cant land the one punch ko like he did to Moorer. I think any version of Ali keeps the fight at long range, builds up the points early and hangs on in the later rounds when George realises he wont tire out, and starts to press the fight. I think Ali beats him on points.
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:33 PM   #14
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Default Re: Could Foreman ever defeat Ali.

Quote:
Originally Posted by combatesdeboxeo View Post
nobody care about your ****py opinion, you know nothing about boxing

So you don't care to elaborate on how in your mind old Foreman, who threw about 5 punches a round, was unbelievably slow and was getting beaten by journeyman, would beat a young Ali? Who had just about the best movement and speed seen at heavyweight?


Points win? Zero output...

Knockout? He couldn't even knock out Morrison...
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:49 AM   #15
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Default Re: Could Foreman ever defeat Ali.

1973 Foreman with the head of 1991 Old Foreman And Angelo Dundee as trainer, beats everyone IMHO.
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