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View Poll Results: How would win over 15?
Johnson PTS 3 60.00%
Hopkins PTS 1 20.00%
Johnson KO/TKO 1 20.00%
Hopkins KO/TKO 0 0%
Voters: 5. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-15-2011, 12:55 PM   #31
darling dame
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Default Re: Harold Johnson vs Hopkins

Johnson was a real enigma!!He was a real good boxer yet pastrano outboxed him(OR SO THE OFFICIAL TALLY SAID SO)hE HAD A GOOD KO %, But he wasnt a TRUE ko artist!!He was alwaays mentioned as a challanger for HEA. title, yet never fought Floyd ,Sonny ,or Ali for title.Also never beat a TOP TOP heavy,&was kod by so so Mederos!!Hop better at middle for sure. Talk of Johnson susceptial to rights but Hop no true hard hitter with right.This a toughie to call.
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Old 01-15-2011, 01:03 PM   #32
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Default Re: Harold Johnson vs Hopkins

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Originally Posted by darling dame View Post
Johnson was a real enigma!!He was a real good boxer yet pastrano outboxed him(OR SO THE OFFICIAL TALLY SAID SO)
Can't see how Pastrano got that decision.
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Old 01-15-2011, 01:07 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
Johnson wins this by being flat out better at Light-Heavyweight. If they were both the same weight though it could be a very interesting match up.
Johnson is without a doubt the most proven LHW of the two, but Hopkins looked extremely comfortable with those extra 15 lbs even at 40. Makes you wonder what he could have achieved as a LHW had he moved up half a decade earlier. (Of course, had he bumped into Roy again it would have been another spanking)
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Old 01-15-2011, 01:47 PM   #34
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Default Re: Harold Johnson vs Hopkins

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
Can't see how Pastrano got that decision.
I can. Pastrano had a pretty bad style for him.

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Johnson is without a doubt the most proven LHW of the two, but Hopkins looked extremely comfortable with those extra 15 lbs even at 40. Makes you wonder what he could have achieved as a LHW had he moved up half a decade earlier. (Of course, had he bumped into Roy again it would have been another spanking)
He was comfortable with it, but any good Middleweight would have been comfortable at LHW against Antonio Tarver, Joe Calzaghe and Jean Pascal.
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Old 01-15-2011, 01:59 PM   #35
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Default Re: Harold Johnson vs Hopkins

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Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
I can. Pastrano had a pretty bad style for him.
For me, bouncing around without landing much doesn't win you fights.

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He was comfortable with it, but any good Middleweight would have been comfortable at LHW against Antonio Tarver, Joe Calzaghe and Jean Pascal.
True. It's just that his movement against Tarver looked so smooth and he also looked very proportionate. He looked as he did at MW, only bigger. And it's not like he defeated much better opposition than Tarver at MW.
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Old 01-15-2011, 02:09 PM   #36
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Default Re: Harold Johnson vs Hopkins

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For me, bouncing around without landing much doesn't win you fights.
Either does consistently being kept off balance and unable to get going.

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True. It's just that his movement against Tarver looked so smooth and he also looked very proportionate. He looked as he did at MW, only bigger. And it's not like he defeated much better opposition than Tarver at MW.
I suppose you are right. I still don't think he can beat Johnson at Light-Heavyweight though.
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Old 01-15-2011, 02:31 PM   #37
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Either does consistently being kept off balance and unable to get going.
He wasn't kept off balance. He had difficulty getting off his punches, but I still thought he clearly outscored Pastrano with clean punches. Pastrano used up more energy in achieving less. How that's a win is beyond me.

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I suppose you are right. I still don't think he can beat Johnson at Light-Heavyweight though.
You may well be right. Do think it's a shame that Hopkins didn't make the move up sooner, though.
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Old 01-15-2011, 03:18 PM   #38
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Default Re: Harold Johnson vs Hopkins

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but any good Middleweight would have been comfortable at LHW against Antonio Tarver, Joe Calzaghe and Jean Pascal.
Define good? I think for the MW would need to gain size as Hopkins did and for 2 they'd have to be pretty good, especially to beat Calzaghe who H2H is great despite some technical flaws
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Old 01-15-2011, 03:23 PM   #39
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Default Re: Harold Johnson vs Hopkins

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Define good? I think for the MW would need to gain size as Hopkins did and for 2 they'd have to be pretty good, especially to beat Calzaghe who H2H is great despite some technical flaws
yeah, it did take and would take a special middleweight to do what he did

i rate hagler much higher as a middleweight than hopkins but i don't think he could duplicate his feat
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:36 PM   #40
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He wasn't kept off balance. He had difficulty getting off his punches, but I still thought he clearly outscored Pastrano with clean punches. Pastrano used up more energy in achieving less. How that's a win is beyond me.
And why was that?

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You may well be right. Do think it's a shame that Hopkins didn't make the move up sooner, though.
Yeh, a bit.

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Define good? I think for the MW would need to gain size as Hopkins did and for 2 they'd have to be pretty good, especially to beat Calzaghe who H2H is great despite some technical flaws
By good I mean, Hopkins class. I still think any top 10 Middleweight would beat them guys, Joe would be by far the hardest though.
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Old 01-15-2011, 07:52 PM   #41
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Default Re: Harold Johnson vs Hopkins

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And why was that?
'Cause Pastrano moved well. But you have to do more than not getting hit too frequently to win, you have to land yourself also. Johnson landed more while expending less energy. In other words he had the eddge in both clean punches landed and ring generalship (and effective aggression by default, since Pastrano showed no aggression what so ever) and therefore he should have won.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:09 PM   #42
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Default Re: Harold Johnson vs Hopkins

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
'Cause Pastrano moved well. But you have to do more than not getting hit too frequently to win, you have to land yourself also. Johnson landed more while expending less energy. In other words he had the eddge in both clean punches landed and ring generalship (and effective aggression by default, since Pastrano showed no aggression what so ever) and therefore he should have won.
So we are agreed that Pastrano's movement kept Johnson from opening up?

So could it not be said that Pastrano's movement was keeping Johnson off-balance, so keeping him from getting off?

It has been a while since I seen it, but I felt Pastrano was in controll as he kept Johnson off balance and used a consistent jab. Although Johnson landed the harder countershots I don't think he took enough rounds.

Also I don't think a fighter can be an effective aggressor by default. You have to actually have effective aggression IMO and Johnson's aggression wasn't that effective.

I still think Pastrano is a very bad style for Johnson though, especially an older one.
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:28 AM   #43
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Default Re: Harold Johnson vs Hopkins

This would be a very good fight. P4p, B'Hop was the better fighter. But Harold Johnson was the naturally bigger man (I am not talking about only height here). IMO, both were equal technicians but Hopkins was more innovative. Would this be enough? Or, could Johnson use his naturally slightly bigger size to offset this?

I don't know. I don't mind Harold Johnson winning. But, as many here has intelligently pointed out, Bernard Hopkins might just do what is necessary to take this one. But one thing I know is that this one is going to be a very, very close fight.
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:07 PM   #44
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Default Re: Harold Johnson vs Hopkins

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Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
So we are agreed that Pastrano's movement kept Johnson from opening up?

So could it not be said that Pastrano's movement was keeping Johnson off-balance, so keeping him from getting off?
No, Pastrano's movement just didn't give him many openings. It's not like he overreached and looked clumsy as Liston did at times against Clay. You can have perfect balance, but still find it hard to find opening against a fast moving target.

Johnson stayed in the centre of the ring without exposing himself by overreaching, he just had a hard time keeping up with a younger, faster fighter.

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It has been a while since I seen it, but I felt Pastrano was in controll as he kept Johnson off balance and used a consistent jab. Although Johnson landed the harder countershots I don't think he took enough rounds.
It's always hard to see clearly on such footage, but to me it seemed that Johnson actually landed more jabs than Pastrano. He also started to land with solid shots in the later rounds.

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Also I don't think a fighter can be an effective aggressor by default. You have to actually have effective aggression IMO and Johnson's aggression wasn't that effective.
Sure, strike that category altogether then. Johnson still had the remaining two imo.

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I still think Pastrano is a very bad style for Johnson though, especially an older one.
Yeah, always hard to fight someone with speed and skill, especially when you're old and slowing down. But still think Johnson got the more solid work done, which shows just how good he was.
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:10 PM   #45
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Default Re: Harold Johnson vs Hopkins

Did no one show you how to add a poll? I skimmed but I didn't see anybody say it. Upper right of your original post, click thread tools there and a menu pops up with the option to add a poll.
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