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Old 11-12-2007, 11:34 AM   #31
McGrain
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Default Re: My 20 Greatest Composite Punchers, All Time

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Originally Posted by ThePlugInBabies
i know wilde is thought high of but i know very little of him and his career, staring at his record doesn't help me. anyone willing to educate me a little?
I guess as far as ESB goes, Janitor would be your man. For Christ sake, don't ask Sweet Pea.
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Old 11-12-2007, 11:36 AM   #32
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Default Re: My 20 Greatest Composite Punchers, All Time

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Originally Posted by McGrain
I guess as far as ESB goes, Janitor would be your man. For Christ sake, don't ask Sweet Pea.


yeah i've seen sweet pea claim he is vastly overrated.
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Old 11-12-2007, 11:37 AM   #33
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Default Re: My 20 Greatest Composite Punchers, All Time

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Originally Posted by Manassa
Ahem, Ike Williams!
A better puncher than **** Tiger?

How about Marvin Hagler?
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Old 11-12-2007, 11:40 AM   #34
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Default Re: My 20 Greatest Composite Punchers, All Time

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Originally Posted by McGrain
A better puncher than **** Tiger?

How about Marvin Hagler?
Better than both. Granted, he was not always in punching mode, but then neither was Ray Robinson. Both, however, blazed far brighter than the two you mentioned when in full flight.
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Old 11-12-2007, 11:42 AM   #35
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Default Re: My 20 Greatest Composite Punchers, All Time

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Originally Posted by Manassa
Better than both. Granted, he was not always in punching mode, but then neither was Ray Robinson. Both, however, blazed far brighter than the two you mentioned when in full flight.
Bit flowery for me, but OK, noted.

I do disagre about Robinson, at least at MW (not so sure about WW). Robinson really sat down on his punches in the fights i've seen him in, and he's also very busy spending most of his time in and around the firing range.
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Old 11-12-2007, 11:45 AM   #36
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Default Re: My 20 Greatest Composite Punchers, All Time

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Originally Posted by McGrain
Bit flowery for me, but OK, noted.

I do disagre about Robinson, at least at MW (not so sure about WW). Robinson really sat down on his punches in the fights i've seen him in, and he's also very busy spending most of his time in and around the firing range.
The point is that both he and Williams spent a fair amount of time on the back foot, boxing and picking - a fighter like Tiger was nearly always on the offence, looking to dish out damage. And he was good at doing that, but not as good as Williams or Robinson when they stepped up in gear. Seriously, I have not seen a finish as good as Williams' first round knockout of Jose Gatica - ever. The only one that may match it, at least from the era, is his stoppage of Beau Jack for pure intensity.
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Old 11-12-2007, 11:48 AM   #37
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Default Re: My 20 Greatest Composite Punchers, All Time

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Originally Posted by Manassa
The point is that both he and Williams spent a fair amount of time on the back foot, boxing and picking -
But me and you have had this before. I don't see being on the backfoot as neccesarily being a bar to great punching, or even aggression when done properly. It's the difference between Leonard and Robinson. Williams wasn't anything like Robinson's equal in this department.

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a fighter like Tiger was nearly always on the offence, looking to dish out damage. And he was good at doing that, but not as good as Williams or Robinson when they stepped up in gear.
Tiger's punching was lethal though - it was almost impossible for someone to punch with him and do anything other than lose. Though I agree Robinson is a better puncher overall than Tiger, as you know - not yet convinced by the Williams shout though.

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Seriously, I have not seen a finish as good as Williams' first round knockout of Jose Gatica - ever.
Aye - pretty special right enough. Maybe I will look again.
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Old 11-12-2007, 12:09 PM   #38
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Default Re: My 20 Greatest Composite Punchers, All Time

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Originally Posted by McGrain
But me and you have had this before. I don't see being on the backfoot as neccesarily being a bar to great punching, or even aggression when done properly. It's the difference between Leonard and Robinson. Williams wasn't anything like Robinson's equal in this department.
I don't know what you mean by this. I never said 'the better someone is on the backfoot, the better they are at punching.'

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Tiger's punching was lethal though - it was almost impossible for someone to punch with him and do anything other than lose. Though I agree Robinson is a better puncher overall than Tiger, as you know - not yet convinced by the Williams shout though.
Tiger was a savage puncher, but he was so good up close from a combination of strength and stability. Nobody could move him back, so they had no other choice but to retreat.

Williams KO1 Gatica is a must-watch. Williams' jaw-breaking of the heavier Bratton is nice as well.
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Old 11-12-2007, 12:19 PM   #39
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Default Re: My 20 Greatest Composite Punchers, All Time

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Originally Posted by Manassa
I don't know what you mean by this. I never said 'the better someone is on the backfoot, the better they are at punching.'
Just what it said though. Because Robinson is boxing doesn't mean he is picking (unless you mean "picking his punches" as opposed to "picking away at his opponent).
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Old 11-12-2007, 12:31 PM   #40
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Default Re: My 20 Greatest Composite Punchers, All Time

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Originally Posted by McGrain
Just what it said though. Because Robinson is boxing doesn't mean he is picking (unless you mean "picking his punches" as opposed to "picking away at his opponent).
Okay, don't get too trivial on my choice of words. I meant taking the back foot.
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:26 PM   #41
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Default Re: My 20 Greatest Composite Punchers, All Time

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Originally Posted by McGrain
OK - I hear you. And no, I can't name someone with his record for KO's - but Rocky was a horrible puncher, horrible, the man would sometimes fall over when he threw punches. I think his ranking is fine for this reason - Rocky's punching left him horribley vulnerable to counters & many of the punches he threw were absolutley useless.

If Rocky didn't have such extraodrinary stamina, he wouldn't even have beeen champ, never mind on a list such as this.

But in recognition of sheer volume and the fact that most of what he threw was hard, he should be named amongst the best punchers ever to have fought. But that should be good enough.
He looekd horrible, sure. But we're talking about all-round punchers, in other words, the ability to stop a man, right?


p.s. Joe Louis, who is mostly #1 or #2 at these lists, and rightfully so, also fell down after throwing a punch.
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:35 PM   #42
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Default Re: My 20 Greatest Composite Punchers, All Time

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
p.s. Joe Louis, who is mostly #1 or #2 at these lists, and rightfully so, also fell down after throwing a punch.
Against Abe Simon in their rematch if I recall, round one or two. The rest of that thrashing was flawless, however. Simon took a real beating, although he took harder punches in round five than the one that knocked him out in round six.

Last edited by boxingcar; 09-14-2006 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 11-12-2007, 03:24 PM   #43
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Default Re: My 20 Greatest Composite Punchers, All Time

Jofre, Arguello and Louis.
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Old 11-12-2007, 04:34 PM   #44
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Default Re: My 20 Greatest Composite Punchers, All Time

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Super 'Jinky' Milner?*






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well holmsey you are definitely stretching our friendship here mate.not the super or should i say "lucky"jinky milner bit.but your f****** avatar with that little horrible t***!
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Old 11-12-2007, 04:39 PM   #45
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Default Re: My 20 Greatest Composite Punchers, All Time

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Originally Posted by McGrain
Used punching to make it almost impossible for a fighter to stand in front of him - it is true that **** also rellied heavily upon durability for this to be the case, but to be absolutley clear, I pick Tiger to beat every single fighter at MW who would stand with him, including Greb and anyone else you care to mention.

You MUST run from Tiger to beat him because of his punching ability.

I will admit he is a contriversial choice given my criteria.
you've answered me mate in your reply to a poster above,your not just talking power.i wouldn't argue with tiger on overall punching effectivness,he was a great fighter anyway
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